M’s Make No Further Trades
While there was some talk that the team would move either or both of Jason Vargas and Kevin Millwood, the Mariners didn’t make any more trades today, and I’m just fine with that. These are not the type of guys who bring back significant returns, and in reality, both are probably capable of being traded in August if they continue to pitch well and circumstances change. Neither of these guys are impact pitchers that teams were prioritizing, and players of this caliber get traded through the waiver process every year. So, it’s possible the M’s could still move either one over the next month, but again, you’re not looking at getting much in return for either.
And, if you’re not getting anything of real value back, you might as well keep running out the most competitive team you can over the final two months. The Mariners have won five straight and pulled to within eyeshot of .500, so if they play really well down the stretch, an 80 win season isn’t out of the question. No, they’re not making the playoffs, but getting back to .500 might re-establish some credibility with fans that have turned away from the franchise, and that could have a more significant long term effect than adding any more marginal minor leaguers to the system anyway.
The Mariners traded Ichiro, they traded Brandon League, and they acquired a serviceable outfielder that let them ship Carlos Peguero back to Tacoma. They created roster spots for both Stephen Pryor and Carter Capps, and now will have a bullpen full of guys throwing 95-100. This was a successful month for the Mariners, even if it wasn’t all that sexy.
Isn’t it true that to be traded after the deadline a player could have cleared waivers at any point since March, or something like that? In other words, if they’ve already cleared waivers once they don’t have to clear them again, correct?
Look forward to watching Capps.
So is Peguero gone and Thames added to Active roster? Ow was that just conjecture?
Is Erasmo Ramirez close to re-joining the team? And what is likely ETA for Furbush?
Thames isn’t on the 25 yet. Ramirez just started his rehab at Tacoma and Furbush is due back around the middle of August.
Gotta agree. The knee-jerk reaction is to want a bigger splash and ballsier moves, but trading for the sake of trading is not good policy. Would like to have seen Millwood turned into something since he’s not got a lot of value to us at this point, but the return would have been pretty negligible. Vargas is going to be important next year and should probably be under consideration for a extension.
My only qualms are of the Monday Morning Quarterback variety in regards to the sorts of returns that other teams got for their relievers compared to ours. Chad Qualls got turned into Casey McGehee and Edward Mujica got turned into Zack Cox. Nothing against the Thames move, but I feel like Delabar is worth more than those bullpen arms and a Cox/McGehee would look good on this roster. Seems like both could have been obtainable without including Wilhelmsen, but who knows.
The answer to the second question is yes, but I’m not so sure about the first one. To elaborate, if a player clears waivers at the beginning of August, he can be traded at any point, even if it’s weeks later, and does not have to pass through waivers again on account of the trade.
For the first question, there are different windows in which the waiver process is subject to different rules, as well as different types of waivers. Clearing waivers of a different type or during a different window may not matter to this scenario, so I kind of doubt that you can go all the way back to March, assuming you can even go back before August 1 at all. Since claim priority changes with each window, it may mean that waivers from one window do not carry over to the next, since a different set of clubs would be getting first crack at the player.
I think it’s a reasonable return if underwhelming talent-wise (ignoring the “talent” given up). However, at least it’s not Peguero/Robinson in the outfield now. With the subtraction of Suzuki and Figgins that leaves some payroll room for free agents next year. Perhaps a right-handed platoon for Thames minimally.
I’m just as happy they didn’t do anything. I wasn’t looking forward to reading the analysis about another fourth outfielder and a guy that might be a back end of the rotation starter or long relief guy.
A Sideburns/Robinson platoon beats a Peguero/Robinson platoon – which is what I’m guessing we’ll see. I’d rather not see a platoon at all, but it is what it is.
For a team that’s building for the future, wouldn’t it seem like the July trading deadline would be the wrong time to look for high-level talent? I dunno… it just seems like you’d be more likely to end up overpaying in July for the sorts of guys any contender is probably also interested in.
Regarding waivers: I thought it was routine for teams to run all their guys through waivers after August 1, whether or not they had any real interest in trading them. If someone makes a claim, the team can just pull a guy back – but if he clears, they’re free to listen to any offer any other team might make.
With the subtraction of Suzuki and Figgins
Figgins is under contract for 2013, unfortunately. However, he and Guti come off after next year. The team has basically nobody on a long-term deal any more, because Felix is done after 2014.
The problem is the FA market for 2012-2013 for the positions the M’s need the most (1B/OF/DH, aka “someone who can hit the ball better than Mario Mendoza”) is a big pile of “meh”, and most of the FA market for other positions is not a lot better- it’s stuff like taking a flyer on Stephen Drew, maybe, or wincing hard while signing Zack Greinke after a bidding war… nothing that makes me go “yeah, Z, get out the checkbook, that’s a lock to improve the team and a good way to spend money”.
The best bet to improve the team in the 2012 season when you’ve got some salary flexibility and an unappealing FA market would be to take someone’s salary dump (the Cliff Lee maneuver, or the kinds of moves Billy Beane does sometimes).
Westside –
You may be right, but as Robinson’s a better lefty hitter than righty, and as Thames is a lefty… let’s just say it’s not ideal. And if the idea is to platoon Wells and Thames, then this is less awesome.
After Gutierrez gets back, it’s easier, though I’d still like to play Saunders 100% of the time.
Any move that means I don’t have to see Peggy waving wildly at pitches every night, I’m all for it.
Not mad at the M’s, just mad at the Pirates. CHAD QUALLS!! Milwood isn’t better than Qualls?! I get they needed to unload Mcagee after Snider and Sanchez, but come on we have to of been able to top that.
someone should tell Baker we are allowed to contend before 2015…
I’m confused as to why you think Casey McGehee is that good? He’s like a right handed Mike Carp isn’t he? I just really don’t see the massive appeal in getting him.
if they play really well down the stretch, an 80 win season isn’t out of the question.
48 and 57 before tonight’s game. 57 games left to play. 32 and 25 the rest of the way, to hit 80 wins? .561 baseball. Hm. Maybe!
“I’m confused as to why you think Casey McGehee is that good? He’s like a right handed Mike Carp isn’t he? I just really don’t see the massive appeal in getting him.”
This was my sentiment. McGehee is a righty with a sub-.300 wOBA over his past 1,000 ABs. He’s not a plus defender, he’ll be 30 in a few months, and is making ~$3 million per year. I don’t see how he would be of interest to a team in our position.
Snider, on the other hand, would have been a nice acquisition, IMO. Not sure what the Jays would have wanted for him from our organization, though. Would have taken one of our young relievers, I’m guessing. They would have had no use for League, and Delabar isn’t nearly of the same value as Lincoln. I wouldn’t have given up Capp/Pryor for Snider.
I see no reason why Condor and Guti can’t both play in the OF full time.
Baker says the M’s can’t contend until 2015, but let’s say they finished at .500 this season, is there any way they could contend as early as 2014 with all this young talent on the way and a couple of possible free agent signings with the boat load of cash this offseason?
Texas will still be really good next year. I think that it’s better to open the piggy bank when the team is legitimately worth 85-90 wins and a piece or two can push them over the top.
“…with all this young talent on the way and a couple of possible free agent signings with the boat load of cash this offseason?”
Assuming they start 2013 with the same payroll as the same payroll as 2012, they’d have around $44 million free under the budget, less what Kelley, Jaso, Ryan, and Vargas get in arbitration (assuming they don’t resign Iwakuma, Sherrill, Perez, or Kinney). Let’s say Kelley gets $1 million (up from ~$750k), Vargas gets $7 million (up from ~$4.8 million), Jaso gets $1.5 (up from ~$500k), and Ryan stays around $1.75. That leaves ~$32.75 million. Given their performances, I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to bring back Perez (let’s say @ $1 million), Iwakuma ($2 million???), and Kinney ($500k?). That still leaves us with $29.25 million. That’s actually a lot more than I thought there would be when I started writing this. I forgot what my point was now…
Oops. Forgot about the ~$7 million in non-arb eligible contracts they have (Smoak, Seager, etc). That takes us down to ~$22 million.
Remember, this is the non-waiver trade deadline. There’s another month when if you can get a guy through waivers, you can trade him. Jason Vargas is not going to pass through waivers, but Kevin Millwood easily could. Oh, and I’m guessing Miguel Olivo and Chone Figgins will pass through waivers. Just guessing.
Pretty much nailed what the M’s were going to do with your predictions, Dave: selling League, and buying Thames. Vargas and Millwood are both still here, but with Hultzen not improving it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to trade them anyways.