Combatting Emotion With Facts, Part 1
Dave · December 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm · Filed Under Mariners
(Today, I’m going to start rolling out a series of posts that just deliver short pieces of factual information. My goal is to provide a little perspective to the hysteria that is sweeping through the fan base. Feel free to share these facts with any and all irrational overreactors you may encounter.)
Fact Number One:
The San Francisco Giants hit 103 home runs last year, ranking 30th out of 30 Major League teams. The San Francisco Giants won the World Series.
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It should also be noted that no front office MAKE a free agent sign with them, even if they offer more money.
Giants were also 5th in the majors in batting WAR & 9th in wRC+
Yep – it’s almost like you can have a good offense without hitting a lot of home runs. Also, park factors matter.
None of these moves have bothered me. Swisher is in fact still out there, and so is Bourn. We could potentially snag both for the price of what Hamilton would have been alone…
And together, at least on paper, they would offer more value than Hamilton would have, and with fewer distractions.
In fact, I have to laugh at the Rangers’ position. They have gotten shafted this offseason. Missed out on Greinke, Upton and now Hamilton. Young might get traded. Seems the balance has shifted. If we make a move on any combination of Swisher/Bourn/pitcher we could very well overtake Texas in a number of positive metrics.
Just shows you can win without ‘multiple big bats’ as many overreactors seem to believe.
The Angels wild spending is going to be be hurting them big time a few years from now when Hamilton and Pujols are declining and still getting paid like elite players. Wilson and Pujols both had down years. Signing a volatile Hamilton to a mega deal to replace Hunter who had a great year won’t put them over the top. They still have bullpen issues and their rotation is far from being amazing.
Look the M’s held their own without any useful veterans to help the young guys, especially against the AL West. IF the M’s can get a couple decent veteran bats to help score more runs I think they will continue to get better. The starting pitching is pretty solid and the bullpen Jack has built is young, cheap, and well balanced. The M’s don’t need a bunch of bashers, they need good hitters.
“The M’s don’t need a bunch of bashers, they need good hitters.”
Unfortunately they never sign any of them. Not this year, not last year, not two years ago, ect…ect… But no panic anyway, there’re the Astros now to defeat, WOW !
They also had a 107 OPS+, and a team wOBA of .316 (which includes pitchers)
The Mariners in 2012 had a 90 OPS+ as a team, good for a .291 wOBA
I really just want Olerud back, is that too much to ask?
Does anyone actually believe that Swisher will sign with the Mariners? I’m not buying it.
Most people here would be fine with the Mariners signing good hitters rather than bashers. So when exactly will that start happening?
ManifestDestiny–are you just being deliberately obtuse?
Dave’s point isn’t that the Mariners don’t need good players. Seriously, how terrible at analysis would you have to be to think a team doesn’t need good players? Dave’s point is that they don’t necessarily need power.
It’s not just about power, if it was there would have been outrage when Mark Reynolds signed with the Indians. Josh Hamilton like Prince Fielder is a great hitter, the Mariners ownership had a chance to sign both of them in a league with no salary cap and they decided that profit was more important. That is why people are upset, it’s not the NFL where you have to have a budget. The Mariners franchise is ranked 12th by Forbes and currently they have decided making money is more important then winning.
More facts: The Giants were 18th of 30 in SLG. So they had SOME power. The Tigers – AL champs – were 7th in SLG and 16th in HR. Of the 8 teams in the 2012 postseason, only one – the Braves – were in the bottom half of all 20 teams in .SLG. So yeah, you do need some power.
Combatting some fans’ cherry-picking of stats, with your own cherry-picking of stats, is silly and petty.
If you still think this front office of Chuck, Howie and Z are really building a winning team and correctly-built, year-over-year contending franchise, go ahead and do so, go ahead and lay out why… but don’t just stick your fingers in your ears and go “lalalala” when you don’t like some of the obvious data saying how much the offense needs help and how much the team needs to just win again.
The idea that because there’s no salary cap teams don’t need to have a budget or spend their money wisely is ridiculously stupid.
Who on the Mariners is even remotely as good a hitter as Buster Posey? Or even Pablo Sandoval? Or hit as well as Scutaro did once he joined the Giants? Which outfielder is a better hitter than Angel Pagan? Our pitching staff isn’t remotely as good as the Giants. There is no comparison between the Mariners and the Giants and just looking at homeruns entirely misses the point. The Giants know how to evaluate talent. The Mariners don’t. The Giants have a plan. The Mariners are lost at sea. The Giants have a manager who knows how to use all his players effectively (not once a month in some cases). The Mariners don’t.
And the Giants did this while completely remaking their starting eight since they won the WS in 2010. Only Posey remained. Sabean was able to find guys like Pagan, Scutero, Cabrera, Pence, and Blanco to mix with young guys like Crawford and Belt. The best we can do is Bay? Seriously.
Dave, most of us already understand the point you’re trying to make here, but it actually just comes off as petty. Don’t do this, it’s a little embarrassing.
So signing Marco Scutero before this past years post season would have excited you guys? I can hear all the sarcastic comments now. Dave’s point is not that we are the Giants today (but our staff can look similar by the end of this year as our young talent hit the Bigs) but that there are other ways to win a WS besides bashing the ball. The Giants have kept their best homegrown talent and allowed them to develop. We have to do the same and trust in JZ’s ability to judge talent, which he has proven he can do.
Mariners35 makes a good point. This comes of as combating cherry picking with more of the same, Dave. Where did the Giants rank in XBH compared to the rest of the NL? Exactly.
Its not cherry picking, the Giants were 29th of 30 teams in ISO, so its not just home runs.
They rate out better in slugging percentage but that is because it includes singles, and the Giants ranked 1st in MLB in singles. Which ever way you slice the data, they were a team of banjo hitters, and Buster Posey.
And Dave is not being petty, read Steve Kelly’s column if you want to see petty. Kelly rips the Mariners for not doing what ever it took to sign Hamilton, and he’d be the first one pointing fingers if the signing turned wrong.
>I really just want Olerud back, is that too much to ask?
He is too busy suing his Clyde Hill neighbors.
Isn’t that two facts?