With That Said
(The thread for venting is down one.)
Yes, the Mariners got swept at home by Texas in about the most frustrating way possible. However, two of the games were obviously easily winnable, and the only game that wasn’t featured a not-healthy-and-struggling Felix. The Rangers didn’t destroy the Mariners, even though they’re probably the best team in the division. This wasn’t a whooping that proves the team can’t contend. If anything, it should prove that this team can contend – they just need to make some improvements.
The Mariners have been outscored by four runs in 25 games. Yes, the offense has been terrible, but despite that, they’ve still been in almost every single ballgame.
Don’t panic. This team can win the division. They can’t do it with this roster, but the changes are pretty easy to make, and the front office should have the courage to make those moves.
And if they can’t win it this year, they are only 2-3 power hitters away from winning the division in 2011.
Although it’d sure be nice to convince Cliff Lee to stay. . .
I can’t vent in this thread?
I don’t see Lee staying. Let’s accept the reality. This club is just not good enough for the best free agency pitcher.
Thanks for the reality check, Dave! It’s easy to let emotions get the better of you when swept.
The only reason we are contenders is the division we are in. We’re gone if were in the East. I wonder if the Blue Jays would win the West? I think they’d have a gret shot.
I’d be willing to bet that Jack Zduriencik knows this, has come to terms with it, and is already waiting for the right time to pull the treezy on some moves. I’ve got faith, and patience.
Zduriencik’s earned both.
Might as well project how the Baltimore Orioles would do in the West while we are at it.
What amazes me is that, after 25 games, this team is collectively hitting about as well as nine Willie Bloomquists. And that’s not exaggeration or poetic license — they have about the same OPS as Bloomquist has for his career. This despite the fact that almost everyone in the lineup is at least as good a hitter as Willie (low bar, I know), and most are much better.
Given that, it’s impressive that they have competed at all. Even with no roster changes, there is no way they can continue to hit this poorly.
Well, is there a left handed-left fielder/DH out there? Or a third baseman that Lopez and Snell or Fister can be traded for?
We have a serious problem at catcher. With the combination of black hole offense and daily passed balls we are in for a complete deficit all year. Isn’t there some viable option to fix this from outside or inside the organization?
Alex Gordon just got demoted…
Of course there is.
Anyway. There’s no way Z can pull off a trade this early in the season that will right the ship. The only things Z and Wak can do are minor yet signficant changes to optimize what they have, to buy enough time to get to the All Star Break.
Langerhans and Hannahan, plus a full-time Bradley at DH and as little of Grief-y as possible. Byrnes and Sweeney gone. Wak actually adjusting the batting order to reflect the current production of his hitters.
The resulting team then needs to keep the Ms within striking distance for 6 weeks.
If the Ms can stay within 2 or 3 games of the lead and then get a legitimate middle-of-the-order hitter for 1B, LF or DH, the season’s salvagable.
Otherwise, we can comfort ourselves with as many woulda-coulda-shouldas as we want… point to as many blown saves and close games and fluke hitting slumps as we want… but the end result will still be the same as the last few years. A close loss is just as much of a loss in the standings as a blowout.
If you want to make a run this year you’re going to have to trade for offense now, and if it works enough to keep us in the thick of things, trade Lee at the deadline for more offense.
If you’re looking a couple of years out, get someone who’s decent with longer-term upside now and ride Lee through the end of the year and get the draft picks.
Seems like the two most logical options. And please, trading Jack Wilson for Adrian Gonzalez is not logical so don’t even bring it up 🙂
ETA: Chris From Bothell’s suggestion is also fine, though I don’t know if sticking with the talent we have in the organization will keep us in contention until the All-Star break.
Yep, that’s the silver lining and the cloud all rolled into one. The division is within reach, but the team’s not grabbing for it. And if they can make it to the playoffs, Felix, Lee, and Bedard could take them a long way in October.
Jeez guys, please, do what it takes, okay? Wasting this opportunity would be unforgivable.
OK, this may be rosterbation (apologies in advance), but I am actually curious whether anyone else thinks this idea has any merit. If not, I’ll take my whuppin’ and lick my wounds…
Colorado has four (for all intents and purposes) “starting” outfielders and struggles to find decent playing time for them all. What would it take to possibly pry Seth Smith away from them? .375 career wOBA, .499 SLG, decent ISOs, not a complete embarrassment in LF (mostly small sample sizes for his UZR, but he hasn’t disgraced himself in the opportunities he’s had in a similarly huge outfield). Not the sexiest name in the world, but perhaps a supply and demand opportunity to land a decent lefthanded bat that would allow MB to DH full time?
This move would have to be predicated on giving Sweeney his DFA and gold watch, so we don’t end up bumping yet another more useful player to make room on the 25-man; I’ve never been a religious fellow, but God, I pray for this on an almost hourly basis…
GarForever – I think the Rockies would keep Smith over Spillborghs. Either one would be fine with me.
I wonder if Ty Wiggington become “expendable” after Brian Roberts returns? Don’t know about his defense, but he is producing at a nice clip now.
Of course there is.
I’m pretty sure this roster’s true talent level when it comes to hitting isn’t an OPS in the lower 600s. Just a hunch.
This is it. This is the most winnable the AL West has been in quite awhile. You’ve made the Lee trade. Not doing something with the offense, (even if it’s just getting rid of Byrnes and Sweeney, DHing Bradley, and bringing in Langerhans/Hannahan) not only would be “unforgivable,” it just wouldn’t make sense. What was purpose of trading for Lee if you’re not going to supply at least an adequate offense, i.e, one that can average, oh, I don’t know, maybe 4 runs a game? (we’re averaging 3.4 – ugh)
Um, who? Not even Baltimore is going to trade anyone usable the first week of May. All the good hitters won’t be available until closer to mid-June at least. Unless Z knows of some Branyan-level surprise (who can actually stay healthy…) that he can pull off from out of nowhere…
I’m watching the Phillies-Mets game tonight on ESPN and have seen more offense in 3 and 2/3 innings (it’s now 11-5 Phillies) than I’ve seen watching the Mariners all year. OMG. The Phillies are a juggernaut!
Tell me about it. My entire family is chock full of Phillies fans. I’m visiting home from college right now and all I hear is eruptions of cheering from the living room, while I sit in my bedroom drowning in sorrow.
Patients, gentlemen. This season was never about winning the World Series. It was “rebuild-and-contend year #1”. Though They made moves to get better in the short run- the cliff lee trade, dumping Silva for milton, This team’s best years are ahead of us. Thats why I agree with the lofty fangraphs ranking. They resigned Felix, have a young player entering his prime at a premium position in Franklin Guiterrez. they stocked the farm system with good young hitters (still waiting, Ackley) Other than Ichiro they have no serious money invested in anyone over the age of 26. In Baseball in a bare market its just like the entire economy. you dont want to be in debt. this team can wait and pull the trigger on some firepower as some of the young guys are coming up and suddenly you have felix in his prime surounded by a bunch of young, solid hitters and ichiro. give the regime what they give college coaches- five years to with a title. rome wasnt built in a day. This team is clearly trying to do what the rays are doing- build an organic, cost effective baseball team. I never even cared if they made the playoffs this year in grand scheme of things. this is just the start of something bigger.
chill, yo.
Im not panicking……I have my towel…….everyone grab a towel and hold on tight!
GarForever-you are not crazy. When the M’s
played Colorado in spring training, even the Colorado announcer was talking about the outfield depth and which one will go. The most likely (in my eyes) would be Brad Hawpe. He isn’t a very valuable NL player. His UZR is hilariously bad. Basically he is the anti-thesis to Franklin Gutierrez with the glove. But he would make a valuable DH. Unfortunetly that would push Bradley into the field everyday, which isn’t ideal.
What about Jack Cust or Mike Jacobs? They are not in the future plans of their current employers and either one could give a cheap power boost to this dead lineup.
..they need to have the courage ot shop Lee and get some offense. We can manage without Lee and still win the division if we get two bats. Cut Byrnes, send down Tui, bring up Josh Wilson. Bring up Saunders or Langerhans. DFA Sweeney, put Griffey on IR and lets get this team moving!
watching the Mets game tonight make s me sick…how can two teams in 5 innings score more runs in one game than we have in 3 weeks.
chill, yo
I don’t share fcb’s sentiment. The AL West is wide open and the Ms should absolutely go after it. You can be mindful of the future and try to compete simultaneously. I’ll be very disappointed (as will many other fans, I’m sure) if the Ms punt this year and use the “big picture” as an emollient. I don’t think they will, though. I’m chilled, but only because I think some moves are coming soon — as in next week, not next year.
The Ms marketing department and the front office in general absolutely loves this kind of sentiment in fans. They can coast on “remember 1995?” sort of promotions, and a tolerance for mediocrity, for years this way.
fcb, I completely agree with you. The team is building despite trying to stay competitive. It’s good to know that’s in the works. It’s just hard to remember that when you see frustrating games like this weekend. And again, like I said in a previous post, when we don’t resign Cliff Lee next year, we’re gonna have a seriously nice draft. Another haul in 2011, since Lee will remain Type A. Looking forward to young, in-house talent for years!
The Mets-Phillies game wasn’t frustrating because our lack of offense is an entirely separate issue. It was actually delightful because I was on the gym watching it as Jamie Moyer walked home a run and set them up for a grand slam. Jamie!
I also wanted to chime in just so that “gentlemen” can’t accurately be used to address everyone else. So there.
I said “rebuild-and-contend”, not “rebuild, not contend”.
who said the Mariners are punting this year? of course they should go after the division. but what do you suppose we do when we get there? I’m all for ditching Sweeney, and the moves they made today, but you really think that this team will pose any threat to the yankees, twins, and rays just because Casey Kotchman’s finally batting fifth and we have an actual backup infielder?
dont misinterpert this as pessimism. Quite the opposite. I am elated they have held back on getting a hitter in a weak pool of talent and havent thrown away some money on a washed up bat like Jermaine Dye.
Thats what made the the Cliff Lee trade so laughably good. win the division? great, roll the dice with felix and lee and see what happens, then take the draft picks when someone else overpays for him, or trade him at the deadline and recoup the prospects you loaned to the magic baseball talent bank for a year of his services. Baseball is just an applied macroeconomics class.
draft high and spend low for a few years and good things happen. thats how you contend with the huge market teams.
Bothell Chris,
Nobody loathes this front office’s marketing department more than I do. This is a baseball team, not Disney Land.
I’m of the mind that a win now is just as good as a win in July, August, September, etc. So even though we aren’t falling way back in the division race, we could be winning games that we’re losing if we made some cheap moves. Whether it’s ditching Sweeney and/or Byrnes for Langerhans, or perhaps someone like Cust who can hit a tad but would cost us only a “B” prospect (trading partners willing, and I know it could be too early for some GM’s), we ought to do it now.
I don’t want to be sitting here at the end of Game 162 on October 3rd, having finished a game or two behind the AL West champ, saying “if only we’d made a move sooner”.
I actually don’t want to be sitting here in that situation saying “remember those 3 games we blew against Texas”, but that ship has sailed.
Oops – now I read the moves. Byrnes DFA’ed for Langerhans = Excellent.
I’m all for ditching Sweeney, and the moves they made today, but you really think that this team will pose any threat to the yankees, twins, and rays just because Casey Kotchman’s finally batting fifth and we have an actual backup infielder?
Well, the 2001 Mariners won 116 games. Where’s their shiny metal trophy?
To put this another way: the 2001-2008 Yankees made eight consecutive playoff appearances… and won precisely zero World Championships, and made precisely two World Series appearances. Teams that managed to win World Series during that time included the Diamondbacks (92-70), Marlins (91-71), Cardinals (83-78), Phillies (92-70).
I wouldn’t say there’s no chance Cliff Lee re-signs after one crappy series. He’s gotta see what this ballpark can do for his ERA.
While a change was needed, Ryan Langerhans and Josh Wilson aren’t the answer for this teams offensive woes. Both their career OPS+ are well under a hundred.
I find it fascinating that while defense is what this team is built on, Adam Moore and Rob Johnson is probably the worst defensive catching tandem in the league. Those two passed balls yesterday cost them the game. It’d be one thing if those guys could hit but neither have so far this season. They should look for an offensive upgrade at catcher too.
Emonymous, you post here a lot, so I know you’re not a knucklehead. what is your point, exactly? I can’t tell if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.
my overarching point is that my goal as a fan is to see the Seattle Mariners win a world series. I want them to win the division and contend every year. what i dont want is for this team to bet the farm and make a stupid, short sighted trade just to make the playoffs if it costs us long term organizational health. Thats Bavasi style retardation. even if the brewers GAVE us prince fielder, or the the Padres gave us the “imaginary rival discount” on adrian gonzalez, this team is still top to bottom worse than every other contender in the american league. sure, they could ride Felix and cliff lee to the title like the dbacks did with Shilling and Randy in 2001, but i COULD buy a scratch ticket today. I think i’d rather go to work and guarantee myself a paycheck in
two weeks. see what im sayin? do you guys even want to think about the asking price for one of those bats? a LOT higher than the bargain we got lee for. that was the stars aligning. I dont want us shipping half our farm system out of town so prince fielder can draw a walk and watch the rest of this lineup hack and flail trying to drive him in. long story short, this team is better today than it was this weekend. the mariners wouldn’t be half bad if they brought in a slugger, but still not good enough to beat the other good teams in this league 7 out of 12 times. Dont get me wrong, I want this team to win, I just dont worship at the alter of false idols.