Dave Hansen
Dave · April 28, 2005 at 5:56 am · Filed Under Mariners
The M’s have signed Dave Hansen to a minor league contract. He’s going to join the Rainiers today, but the feeling is that he’ll be replacing Shin-Soo Choo on the major league roster sooner rather than later.
Hansen’s not the answer to our prayers, but this is a nice little pickup.
Comments
91 Responses to “Dave Hansen”
I think the idea of having Hansen as our left handed bat off the bench, sending Chooie back down, and having Leone as our right handed bat off the bench, sending Dobbs down, has a lot of merit. I, too, like Leone very much and I doubt he could hurt this team by being up here. He and Bucky were the June / July callups last year, and they were some of the brightest points of the season (along with Jose Lopez and Bobby Mad). At one point, Leone and Bucky were trading off HR’s like they were going out of style. I kind of liked seeing those two “kids” (quotes for Bucky) getting a feel for the game and proving that they can play at this level.
But the question right now is whether or not we CAN call up Leone. Since he was sent down earlier this year, has he cleared the minimum day requirement for a fresh callup?
It’s been at least 10 days since he was sent down. So he can definitely come back up.
Also, w/r/t bench players not making a dent in the standings, the Red Sox would have been screwed had it not been for their quality bench last year. A bench is quite important.
I agree. But Dobbs isn’t one of those free agent players. Leone is only marginally better, so even though he’s worse, it doesn’t matter. The amount of time people are spending defending Leone is even further evidence that he is over hyped.
I think people meld his status as the “Mariner’s symbol of sabermetrics” with his playing abilities. Its like if he gets promoted then “we were right and the M’s management finally figured it out.” Which is odd, because stat people having affinity for players for non-stat reasons is rather ironic.
I can tell I’m just angering people, so I guess I’ll stop. We can just agree to disagree on the importance of Justin Leone.
So, who likes the addition of Daven Hansen? I hear he’s left handed…wink…wink.
Dear gosh Tim, read DMZ’s current article on our bench on the PI’s website. Leone over Dobbs will not be the difference between first and last in the AL West, but it EASILY could be the difference between one or two wins, which can be worth one spot in the standings. More importantly, it would show the M’s are actually thinking about this and not just hoping Dobbs turns into something he’s not like they’ve repeatedly down with other bench players.
I don’t consider myself a “stat” person. I don’t think most of us do. I just prefer to use statistics to help make evaluations, and when the statistics are better for a given player, then I root for that player to pass the other one.
Re 48.
Let me ask you a question then:
What don’t you like about Leone? I’m not part of the blogsphere, and I have an appreciation for the kid and his situation. He’s a 3rd basemen who plays hard and probably has nothing to learn down at the minor league level at this point. Because of the signing of Beltre, Leone will never get a chance to become the starting 3rd basemen, but that doesn’t mean he can’t contribute to the team.
Of the four homeruns that the Mariners website still has stored in the multimedia archive, three were on big fat mistakes by the pitcher. Two were hanging breakingballs and one was a fastball up that Leone pulled out. The 4th home run, off Zito, was actually a decent pitch around the knees, which Leone took to Left Center Field.
That’s hitting talent. The batter is SUPPOSED to destroy pitcher mistakes. Too often, lately, I’ve seen our batters get fat pitches and “just miss them”. Having an injection of youth in the lineup who has shown that he doesn’t miss those pitches would be a good thing, especially in the later innings when a “pinch” hitter would be used.
Thanks, Dave.
Tim,
If you notice, you started the Leone discussion in this thread. In fact, there has been very little discussion of him on the blog this year. The Leone/Dobbs comparison isn’t something we talk about on even a semi-regular basis.
This thread was about Dave Hansen. You changed it to Leone/Dobbs. And then you say that we’re too wrapped up in our “hyping” of Justin Leone. We were asked for our opinion, supplied it, and then told that we shouldn’t care because it doesn’t matter.
I’m not particularly sure what would make you happy on this subject.
Some of the better teams in baseball use their bench to push the ‘regulars’. eg Boston, Texas. The regular position players then have Rookie hotshots and established position players on their backs only too anxious and ready to take over.
Oh, and just for the record, I’d keep Dobbs too and… Dare I say this as a Willie Bloomquist lover?… send WFB back to Tacoma. To me, right now, having a utility guy who plays a lot of positions and is not a power hitter doesn’t benefit us. I love Willie, but we need help in other ways right now. There really is no place to put WFB at the moment. Leone and Dobbs would at least provide relief in the outfield and infield and give us a right and left bat off the bench.
Heck, having both of them might help us decide who the better player is once and for all. 😉
Re 61:
Not sure about sending Willie down for a less versatile Leone. Ibanez and Leone become spare outfielders, and our only backup MIF is Leone, or maybe Beltre if he could slide over to short for an inning or two. At this point, even though I like Willie ,I’d keep him around. With a fourman bench, his versatility is necessary. I’d send down a pitcher.
I *don’t* like Willie
Dave,
Is there a day that goes by that someone doesn’t complain about Dobbs? I think it was a legitimate question. DMZ asked me why I thought he was overhyped and I simply answered and the thread took over from there. That wasn’t my plan, the discussion just went in that direction.
I apologize if I killed the thread…I didn’t mean to do so. But I still think he’s over hyped, not just because what has been said today, but just the general comments made about Leone. I don’t know why that is such a contraversial opinion and got people so riled up.
By the way, I think Willie should be cut, he stinks.
Is there a day that goes by that someone doesn’t complain about Dobbs?
I realize this is an exaggeration, but yes. We’ve barely talked about him on the blog. A search for Dobbs shows a grand total of four posts containing his name during the month of April, including one where Jason was just laying out roster moves. He’s just not a very widely discussed topic on the blog.
re Dobbs & Leone.
Leone is NOT overhyped. It’s just that he’s a substantially better hitter than Dobbs and a clear case of misevaluation of talent by the Ms front office.
I was referring to the general M’s blogesphere. I didn’t do a search, but I know I’ve read a lot about him lately. And DMZ just did a wonderful piece about the M’s bench and how Dobbs stinks (which is generally true), so the topic was fresh, but probably in the wrong thread.
I know I said I would stop writing about this, but everyone seemed so interested…but I’ll stop now.
Tim: What on earth made you think is was appropriate to take this blog to task for something they’re not doing, but the rest of the M’s blogs (allegedly) are? I’m not one to bust out the T-word without serious provocation, but this has me reaching for my holster….
To further what Roger said, it’s the misevaluation of talent by the front office that has kept this team from going to the World Series. When we were fortunate to be in a division with a poor but intelligent Oakland franchise, an overspending Texas franchise, and a middling Anaheim franchise, we couldn’t take advantage of it.
The only way they’ll get back to the top is to become smarter with their money in an Oakland/Minnesota sort of way, make astute roster decisions, and maximize their capital to add key pieces.
DJW,
No need to get hostile towards Tim. He took a thread about the M’s bench and turned it into a larger discussion about the M’s bench. It’s fine. This is what we have comments for.
I don’t agree with his point of view, but I wouldn’t say his questions were “inappropriate”.
Dave,
Thanks. It make me happy that we can agree to disagree about a topic. Seriously, I think that’s important to have good discussion and debate about the M’s future. But I’ll try to stay within the thread next time as I realize this is your blog.
DJW,
I have no idea what the T-word is, but I’m guessing its not positive.
There are two cheap ways to build a better bench: one is the scrap-heap method; the other is through the farm system.
The double-whammy of signing free agents is that you lose draft picks. Pat Gillick’s tenure may have lots of W’s, but the top end of his drafts were pathetic. Nothing against Leone, but it is too bad that he is all we have to talk about (aside from Doyle).
Tim,
Don’t worry about it. This thread was on topic enough for our tastes.
Now when I come along…
Just a theory, but from the look of their minor league careers, Leone appears to get better at each level, while Dobbs does not show the consistent improvement. Perhaps the organization is actually letting Leone have the benefit of everyday play at AAA, while Dobbs is just parked on the big-club bench for a while with little benefit other than getting getting him hooked on coffee.
No, Brian, that’s unfortunately not it. The organization favors contact hitters and abhors strikeouts, and Dobbs gets a clear advantage in their mind for hitting .270, while Leone’s a .230 hitter who K’s a lot.
There are several public quotes from guys like Benny Looper floating around about how Dobbs has been ahead of Leone on the depth chart basically his whole career. This is simply a case of the M’s believing that Dobbs is a better player.
Much like the Matt Thornton-George Sherrill deal, right?
It’s a question of perception. Dobbs looks like he should be better than Leone. Thornton LOOKS like he should be better than Sherrill. But they’re not.
Not really. Thornton’s on the club because he’s out of options. Had it been an equal playing field, Sherrill would have made the club.
OK. I just assumed they expected a 93 MPH Lefty to succeed more than a regular Lefty.
So, assuming Hansen gets a call up, who do we keep on the bench as a reserve outfielder? I’m tired looking at Willie Bloomquist in center. Whatever his merits/demerits, he simply doesn’t belong there. It was bizarre looking at the outfield last Friday, in the first game against Cleveland, and wondering why our why our two better players were in the corners while the worst was in center.
You’re probably right, Dave, but given Grover’s epxerience in building farm hands into a WS team in Cleveland, I’m going to hope his influence is helping the organization. If his job is to make the M’s into winners, he’s got bigger fish to fry than arguing calls.
Not that development for internal needs matters much anyway. Your corner infielders are pretty much stuck at AAA for a while anyway.
One thing that’s been ignored is the reason, however wrong it may be, why Hargrove has chosen to keep Dobbs over Leone and even brought up Choo over Leone. We don’t have any left-handed hitters in our lineup that we regularly pinch-hit for(save for Reed against a tough lefty), thus Hargrove wants lefties on the bench. Late in games they pinch-hit for Valdez and whichever catcher is playing, Olivo or Wilson. All 3 are right-handed. Because he’s so set on having lefties coming up against righties, etc. he feels that he doesnt’t need Leone on the roster (because he wouldn’s use him to hit against a right-handed pitcher — even though he should).
Jon, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. Good call.
It’s a factor, but I’m pretty sure that if Leone were a lefty and Dobbs a righty, Dobbs would still be on the club. The organization just thinks he’s far and away the better player.
He looks like the better player. His swing is purty.
Boy, sleep in and eat lunch out for one day and not boot up my computer till 2 p.m. … and see what I miss.
#45  You’re just flat wrong. There is no statistical evidence to justify the assertion that Dobbs can do what Hansen can do. Nine walks in 43 ABs? Dobbs has NEVER come close to that.
2001 (Everett and San Bernardino): 30 walks, 262 ABs. (Okay, he came close to halving it the one time.)
2002 (Wisconsin): 40 walks, 416 ABs.
2003: Injured
2004 (San Antonio, Tacoma, Seattle): 17 walks, 511 ABs.
2005 (Spring training): 2 walks, 52 ABs.
Greg Dobbs hasn’t had the least little bit of plate discipline or on-base skill since 2002. He can’t get on base, nor can he hit well enough to make up for it with a consistent ability to advance baserunners. He is seriously deficient in the two primary elements of baseball offense.
That’s why Dave and others say he “sucks.”
Objectively, he does.
Ironically enough, the same day Dave Hansen gets a team, Jarvis gets recalled.
I like Hansen, those he sure tanked after he went back to the NL last season. I never realized how much more successful he was when he started for the M’s rather than pinch hit.
The makeup of the major league roster is saving Willie B’s ass. Lots of 1B/3B guys, not too many outfielders, and no one else to back up at SS/2B. I know Leone has played SS in Tacoma in the past, but I’m sure he isn’t considered viable for backup duty at short in Seattle. Pinch hitting for Valdez so frequently increases that need even more. Heck, they might as well have a Willie Bobblehead night, he’s so indispensible.
I’m happy to hear that Dave Hansen is back in the Ms organization. I was sorry when he was traded last year, and thought the Ms should pick him up when he didn’t stick with the Cubbies out of ST. As dw said far, far above, he is automatically the best pinchhitter on the roster. As Jon the Mon astutely rendered, he would actually be employed regularly if on the 25-man since it’s weakhitting righthanded regulars whom Hargrove needs to pinch hit for with some frequency, and Hansen’s a lefty. Furthermore, when Big Richie sits against a tough RH starter, we’d probably see Hansen at 1B, Raul DHing, and Winn in left which would be a better use of available resources than at present. Hansen does have a bit of power, unlike Dobbs, and probably more than Choo, too, and he is a ‘professional hitter’ who takes a walk: his numbers as a pinchhitter represent success, not failure, as he refused to get himself out on a bad pitch and gave the team a baserunner in the later innings. Most of the time he was pinchhitting with a man on, so he move up the runner, too. What’s not to like? The 25-man could use a few more professional hitters, and I applaud that influence if and when Mr. Hansen makes it up.
Of course, Hansen should replace Dobbs on the 25-man, but yes, it’ll be Choo who goes down to play regularly. Which means that the big club won’t have a 4th OFer again, which is ridiculous, but. I’d actually be happy to see Dobbs and Choo both go down, and Leone and Hansen come up. If the team won’t carry a 4th OFer, it would be nice to at least get some power and walks off the bench. Hargrove isn’t a fool, and now that he’s had a chance to see his guys play a couple of dozen games which count he’s getting the range on them.
BTW, Grover’s handling of the pitching staff is starting to get refined a bit, too, now that he’s seen who’s who. Today (Thursday) he pulled Meche at 100 pitches when a lefty who had taken him deep was coming up—but he didn’t call in Eddie the Moneyman, who in my view needs to have his innings held down, not be over-exposed, and seldom used on consecutive days. Villone finished the eighth. Guardado came in for the ninth, threw strikes, and the game was over before Texas got a bead on him. I think Hargrove is beginning to weigh in on what he needs, and that’s good. Bavasi won’t be pulling a #1 starter out of the ashcan for him, but still Dave Hansen is _something_, and addresses a team need, so, bully!
David is my cousin and i haent seen him in like 10 years b/c hes to good to come see me even tho hes like rich and famous now and hes like my 2nd cousin or sumthing………
Travis wood