Franchise Players
I’ve been working a lot lately, so perhaps I just feel the need to have a little harmless fun. So, I’m stealing a page from every roadtrip I think I’ve ever been on, and bringing up the totally pointless but still entertaining topic of franchise players. You know you’ve talked about this with your friends before or heard it on sports radio or on ESPN: If you were starting a franchise tomorrow, who would you take?
Well, I’m going to take that a step further. If I was starting a franchise tomorrow and given first pick of each player at a given position, this is how it would go. I’ve slotted players into roles that I feel their talent level matches, so no Josh Beckett as my fifth starter type picks. I’m giving myself a $100 million salary cap, by the way.
Catcher: Joe Mauer – perhaps the easiest call on the whole team.
First Base: Albert Pujols – okay, this might have been even easier.
Second Base: Rickie Weeks – just got called up from Triple-A. He’s going to be a star.
Shorstop: Alex Rodriguez – when a guy is this good, you’ll take his decline phase.
Third Base: David Wright – he’s Scott Rolen without the bad back.
Left Field: Delmon Young – tearing the cover off the baseball in Double-A as a teenager.
Center Field: Carlos Beltran – he didn’t have much competition, though I don’t love his contract.
Right Field: Miguel Cabrera – Perhaps the most talented player of the whole bunch.
Reserve Catcher: Humberto Quintero – you haven’t seen a kid play defense like this since Pudge.
Reserve Corner Infielder: Kevin Youkilis – the Greek God of Great Bench Players.
Reserve Middle Infielder: Alex Cintron – Solid glove, good stick, not good enough to complain.
Fourth Outfielder: Ryan Church – one of the more unheralded players in the game.
Fifth Outfielder: Jason Michaels – lefty masher, underrated centerfielder.
Utility Player: Bill Hall – mostly an infielder, but has the arm and athleticism to learn outfield.
Number One Starter: Roy Halladay – Closest thing we have to mid-90s Greg Maddux.
Number Two Starter: Mark Buehrle – Most underrated pitcher in the game.
Number Three Starter: Brandon Webb – Extreme groundballer finding control again.
Number Four Starter: Dan Haren – average stuff, good command, and an innings eater.
Number Five Starter: Brad Halsey – the very poor man’s Mark Buehrle.
Closer: Brad Lidge – I’m not sure how long he’ll be healthy, but I want that arm in my bullpen.
Righty Setup: Huston Street – Can go several innings and get big strikeouts when needed.
Lefty Setup: B.J. Ryan – Best lefty reliever in the game. And its not really close.
Middle Relief: Chris Ray – you haven’t heard of him yet, but he’s going to be ridiculous.
Long Relief: Julio Mateo – basically perfect for the role.
Spot Starter: Matt Belisle – swing guy who can work in relief or in the rotation.
The ’05 payroll would be in the $85 million range. Once I had to give raises and extensions to a few of the soon to be arbitration eligible types, I’d be getting near the $100 million cap.
So, there you go. For each of the 25 spots on on a roster, those are my “franchise guys”, the ones I’d take if given a choice among anyone in the game at their respective role.
Comments
46 Responses to “Franchise Players”
This year Belisle is sucking against lefties, and giving up quite a lot of homers (small sample size, though). And yet he has an excellent G/F ratio, which means the homers are probably mistake pitches… is he consistent enough to be a “franchise” spot starter?
No disrespect to Mateo, but I would’ve taken Scot Shields as my long relief guy – no contest. He’s proven himself, and he can also start.
And how can one leave Jake Peavy off the roster?? – at the very least he’d be a great spot starter, or more likely a #3 or #4 starter.
There’s really no such thing as a franchise spot starter, now is there? Belisle’s good enough that I want him on my team, not good enough that I want him in my rotation. There aren’t a ton of guys in the majors like that.
Scot Shields is pretty clearly not a long relief guy. He filled in as closer when K-Rod went down, and he’s one of the premier RH setup men in the game. I chose Huston Street over Shields, mostly because of age and Street’s command.
Obviously, I left a ton of great pitchers off. Mark Prior, Johan Santana, Ben Sheets, Peavy, Roy Oswalt, and Carlos Zambrano, just to name a few. I classified all those guys as #1 starters, legitimate top of the rotation guys, but chose Halladay out of that group.
Like I mentioned in the post, I tried to slot players into their realistic role based on talent level. Jake Peavy’s obviously better than a 3rd starter, so he didn’t get considered for anything other than #1 starter. When he didn’t get chosen for that spot, he got left off the club.
So, if you were able to assemble your team as you propose, how many additional teams could you assemble that would be competitive with them? Could you build three comparable teams of fabulous talent? Two? Five?
I’d say 10.
I assume that no Barry Bonds on the team means you are limited to players that are actively playing and healthy.
Dave, are you assuming that every player in the majors is freely available for selection to your franchise team? – or are you deliberately assuming that availability is limited, so that you would only be able to obtain a #5-level arm for the #5 slot in your franchise rotation?
If every player in the majors were available, surely you would build the best possible team for the given payroll, instead of deliberately filling the bottom of the rotation with less-talented pitchers just because cheap young talent like Peavy doesn’t “belong” there. Even your #5 starter ought to be the best available, as long as he’s cheap enough.
Obviously a rotation of (Halladay) (Buehrle) (Santana) (Sheets) (Oswalt) wouldn’t be realistic, because you as the GM probably couldn’t afford all of them within your payroll limit. But (Halladay) (Buehrle) (Best Cheap Guy) (Next Best Cheap Guy) (Next Best Cheap Guy) would be entirely realistic, I think.
If you included Delmon Young at AA, then why not Felix?
It seems kinda insane to imply that Cabrera is more talented than Pujols or (especially) A-Rod.
Isn’t that like saying Felix is more talented than Pedro?
Hey Dave – Why not Johan Santana? He’s better, younger and cheaper than Halladay.
I haven’t posted in quite a while, but still do read the USSM…thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I don’t know if this post is designed to have us add our own team or just to comment on your team. I hope the former, as that’s what I’ve done. I would love to see people pick teams until it is fairly obvious that they would be overwhelmed… just to see what it would look like and how deep we could go. Perhaps this could become a side-bar link???
I entered a fairly large dollar fantasy league with keepers, but as a replacement owner. I needed to rebuild the team so I’ve had to really look around MLB this year. All the fantasy team work I’ve put in this year has led me to throw this team together… let me see what you think.
I tried to be reasonable when it came time to do my pitching staff in particular… I tried to keep age in mind as I selected, and tried to avoid players over 28/29 years old. I think I have a greater risk/reward factor at a few spots than you do, and a couple of my guys may not be that good until year 3 or so, while others may be sliding rapidly at that time.
Starters(8):
C) Victor Martinez. Yes, I’m very scared of this one. But hopefully he will straighten it out. If he does, he is a better power hitter than Mauer and doesn’t have this little injuries that keep mounting up (ask anyone who owns Mauer in fantasyball, they’ll understand me!)
1b) Mark Teixeira– just scratching the power surface, expect huge numbers for years. (I wanted to cheat and put him at 3rd, but alas he doesn’t play there anymore. could he still?)
2b) Clint Barmes. When he comes back he is going to continue to put up great numbers in a long mountain-air aided career. Brian Roberts was a very close second.
3b) Prospect time: Ian Stewart, Col. The school I coach for played his the day he was drafted 3rd overall. Never before or since have I seen a ball hit as hard to opposite field, and it was in a high school game against our “fandango lefty” as we called our junkballer. Then later he hit against Tommy Hawk, our stud 90mph righty. He pulled a ball foul that is still flying today– a 90mph heater! It went over the 315 fence in a direct line and was still increasing in altitude. I bet it sailed 475 feet. I’ve seen Barry Bonds hit one out at Dodger Stadium and it was like that. oh, he’s only hitting .234/4/22 in High A ball, but I’m not worried, my bench can fill the gap for a year or two.
SS) Miguel Tejada. As you said, “When a guy is this good, you take a decline phase.” About the oldest everyday guy on my team, but I think he can handle it. If I have to, perhaps I would move him to 3rd if his range decreases with age. Stewart caught a little in HS, and also could play the corner OF spots or 1b.
LF) Milton Bradley, LAD. He is listed there by MLB.com, but if you want to eliminate him as a CF then I go with Matt Holliday, COL. Both coming into their own, though Bradley’s ceiling may never be reached.
CF) Carl Crawford, TB. Needs to improve OBP or he will become my 2nd hitter. He is still very young and is also beginning to show more power. Could still turn into Ricky Henderson, or even perhaps eventually a #3 hitter.
RF) Lance Berkman, Hou. Seems close to fully recovered from the ACL tear, and plays in that ittie-bittie park. I think he is about to go on a tear, and although he is a little older, I need a couple very solid guys the first couple years while my young-uns mature. We need leadership, and he and Tejada would provide it. Plus he can flip to the bench in a couple years as a 1b/DH/PH that everyone would love to have.
Bench(6):
Hey– are we AL or NL? (Come to think of it, I may have picked my pitchers differently based on their hitting if I had known.) If AL, the next guy is my DH.
DH/PH/OF- Wily Mo Pena. Wow. Love the potential here. Ungodly power and untapped potential– can he stay healthy and be consistent?
C/Inf/OF- Brandon Inge, Det. If it wasn’t for this year’s breakout, he would still be considered a role player. He can play any position on the field and can be a great OBP guy too. In Detroit they say he has the best arm on the team(!)
Inf/pinch runner- Jose Reyes. He is about to get benched for his struggles with the bat (like 2 walks all year, OBP is his BA essentially) but he can steal some bases and has gobs of potential in the middle infield.
PH/OF/1B- I don’t like your “Ryan Church 4th OF” set up because I don’t believe he will ever NOT start again (but your liberal use of a 4th OF that is a starter is why i used Inge on my team as a bench player). With that in mind, I will take…
Adrian Gonzalez, Tex: a masher and a #1 overall selection as a high schooler. Another guy who is still a year away, but what potential.
OF- Ryan Freel, Cincy. Another guy who can play 18 positions. He can steal some bases and is nearing everyday status, but isn’t quite there yet.
reserve catcher- Toby Hall, TB. Only because he was born in Tacoma (did he grow up in WA?) Reserve catcher is a replacement level player and not someone I’ll spend a lot of concern on.
pitching staff(11).
Starters(5):
1) Johan.
2) Carlos Zambrano. great numbers and you could debate he is a #1, but he started the season the #3 for them.
3) AJ Burnett, FL. Once again, this is his spot in their rotation, even if he would be our number 1 in Seattle.
4) Jose Contreras. High risk/reward guy, but other than today has looked very good this year.
5) Victor Santos, Milwaukee. Great WHIP/ERA numbers.
Closer(1):
K-Rod. I’ll take the sore-arm risk for the high reward #’s.
set-up(2): (I don’t like your scenario here, either. Huston Street is a closer— why do YOU get to use him as a set-up man. He will be a closer for a long time. I think you should only use guys in active positions, or at least set a number or alternative slots. With that in mind–
Yancy Branzoban is my RH set-up man
Mike Gonzalez from the Pirates comes in from the left.
Mid/Long Relief and Spot Starters(3):
I really don’t care too much… fill in with anyone.
Glendon Rusch has done a great job this year, and can work both ends of the game.
Jeremy Affeldt, KC? Still has a lot of potential, maybe he could put it together with better support.
(Ryan Dempster has a rubber arm, but he is closer currently so I guess that doesn’t count. If he does, I’ll take him. If not… )
Mike Wise, Mil. Another Anaheim castaway that Milwaukee has turned into an effective piece of a very good pen. In the past he has started and came in late as a set-up man, though he has never gotten a save.
We’ve all put together a dream team in our minds; people who we feel are the best players currently at their positions. While I appreciate that Dave limited himself with a salary budget and included minor leaguers to reflect this, isn’t it just asinine to assume that some prospect is the franchise player at their position? A franchise player cannot, by definition, be called that until he achieves that status.
Like in the NFL, Shaun Alexander is a franchise player, but nobody is going to put that tag on “Cadillac” Williams this early in his career, no matter how much talent he has or how good he’s projected to be.
So maybe I’m confused on the additions of prospects and minor leaguers. A projected second base star is better then Brian Roberts or Alfonso Soriano right now? Saying that Delmon Young is a franchise quality player when you have existing players like Matsui, Manny Ramirez, or Garret Anderson? Moreover, you actually would take these people over other productive Major League ready players? Even Joe Mauer, while having a good year this year and is healthy, is he really better then a possible future Hall of Famer like Ivan Rodriguez?
I dunno. I like young talent. I like minor league prospects. I like imagining that projected talent = MLB success. But If I had to put a team together tomorrow and had to pick my team of franchise players at each position, I don’t think I’d take any minor league prospects. Sorry.
Of course, I’m rather fond of Miguel Cabrera too, but I’d still keep my Ichiro. Or Vlad the Impaler.
Hey Dave, comparing Humberto Quintero to Pudge defensively? Uh….having watched all his games as a Padre, I can assure you this comparison isn’t a good one.
Dave-Just out of curiosity, what would your batting lineup look like?
Try to keep in mind that I did this for fun, that it has no bearing on reality, and it was just an exercise in entertainment. So forgive me for not defending the way I did it. I decided to only slot players in roles I felt they were realistically suited for. Jake Peavy is in no way a fourth starter, so he didn’t get considered for the spot.
If you included Delmon Young at AA, then why not Felix?
Attrition. The odds of Delmon Young tearing his arm to pieces and never playing in the majors aren’t that high. The odds of Felix failing to make an impact due to injuries are still substantial.
Hey Dave – Why not Johan Santana? He’s better, younger and cheaper than Halladay.
Johan is awesome, certainly. But Halladay is in the same class, if not quite as dominant, and has the durability factor. He’s a horse, and an efficient one, and I can get 250 innings out of him without abusing his arm.
isn’t it just asinine to assume that some prospect is the franchise player at their position? A franchise player cannot, by definition, be called that until he achieves that status.
In your opinion. You like the “prove it to me” type analysis. I’m confident enough in scouting and statistical analysis to create what I believe is an accurate assessment of a players ability before he proves it in the majors. If you’re not, that’s fine. You take Garret Anderson, I’ll take Delmon Young. And I’d imagine my team will be beating yours for a long, long time.
Hey Dave, comparing Humberto Quintero to Pudge defensively? Uh….having watched all his games as a Padre, I can assure you this comparison isn’t a good one.
I’ve watched him many, many times myself, and I’m comfortable with it. We’ll disagree on this one, I guess.
Dave-Just out of curiosity, what would your batting lineup look like?
Beltran-Wright-Rodriguez-Pujols-Cabrera-Mauer-Young-Weeks
Dave,
By your rules, you can’t really have BJ Ryan as your lefty set-up guy since his current role is closer for the Orioles.
Sigh.
Look, folks, Alex Rodriguez isn’t playing shortstop for the Yankees either. I know Huston Street and BJ Ryan are closing. I know Ryan Church is starting for Washington. I put them in their respective roles anyways. Street and Ryan are closing for their teams because of injuries. Rodriguez is playing short because Jeter’s an icon in NY. How their current team is using them didn’t effect my take on their role.
Fair enough, Dave. But you’re wrong about Ryan though. He won the job and has had it all year, not because of injuries.
From February 22nd:
Julio lost his job as Baltimore’s stopper in September, giving way to left-hander B.J. Ryan, but hoped to regain the position this spring. Now it appears Ryan will win the job by default.
“I think it probably hurts his chances of starting the season in the closer role, but that doesn’t necessary mean that if he comes back and he’s healthy that he wouldn’t at some point [be the closer],” Beattie said.
Orioles manager Lee Mazzilli, however, believes Julio still has a shot to make the opening day roster — as the closer.
Julio’s injury was a factor in Ryan getting the job.
Would you guys feel better if I lableled them “relief ace #1, #2, and #3?” It’s semantics.
Dave…just for kicks…Who would you pick to manage your club?
Hey what about this guy — and that guy? How about him or him? I don’t want entertainment damn it! I want cold hard facts! Blogs are for the serious, not the silly! Anyway, nice team… where can we buy the chemistry to mix it all.
Dave,
My bad on being bothersome…. I somewhat misconstrued your concept. For some reason I got it in my head it was a 5 year franchise (must be those college years playing Madden/Bill Walsh). I formed my team under more of a “win for 5 years plan, but if i was truly going to go for “Franchise Players” I would construct differently… and if i was going to go for reality in the roster make-up…
well… i guess i’d pretend i was steinbrenner.
i do think it is a great concept, and one that would be great bar-banter for years… particularily if you “drafted” and then guys felt the need to defend their team/argue their brilliance in such a subjective debate.
boat drinks.
Youkilis is actually the Jewish macher of Great Bench Players.
It was a play on the nickname given to him in Moneyball, where they joked that he was “Euclis, Greek God of Walks”.
Dave…just for kicks…Who would you pick to manage your club?
Bob Melvin.
Okay, just kidding. Just wanted to give Jon Wells a coronary.
Bobby Cox, because I’m doing whatever possible to get Leo Mazzone on my staff. If Leo won’t come with him, then Jim Tracy or Buck Showalter.
Say Dave, out of those 10 teams, how many players would the M’s place on them?
My guess is you could argue for…
Ichiro
King Felix
Beltre (and that’s becoming iffy the longer he struggles)
…and that’s about it, which says something about the team.
I can’t argue with your choice for manager, but as long as it’s all in fun I think you ought to call Lou Piniella. Sounds like he would really appreciate the break.
Whoa. Julio Mateo? That’s a tad risky. Unless you’re choosing Spacious Safe for your home stadium, Mateo is a little too flyball prone for my blood. He’s pretty durable, though.
Re: 25
Sexson would also make that list if he had stayed healthy last year and had another big 40+ hr season i think, and may re-establish himself in that category…Lopez could eventually rank quite high on the list of 2b, although he may never quite be in the “franchise” echelon (in my thinking he projects similar to Jose Vidro at his best…always a more talented option, ie Soriano, Kent, but you gotta be pretty darn happy to have him on your team)
but you bring up a good point. a portion of that has to be how few #1 picks we’ve had over the last 6 years or so and how badly they’ve picked with the opportunities they did have. Here’s hoping Jeff Clement gets here fast and does a good enough job to be top 3 or 4 in his position in the future. hopefully he’ll rank not to far below Mauer and Martinez in their prime.
I advocate for a list of all-time DL players. Imagine a team where every other day some guy gets on and another guy comes off the DL.
Of course Griffey makes the list. Who else?
isn’t it just asinine to assume that some prospect is the franchise player at their position? A franchise player cannot, by definition, be called that until he achieves that status.
In your opinion. You like the “prove it to me†type analysis.
No. In this case it has nothing to do with “prove it to me”, as in do it in the future. It has to do with who has been doing it and who is currently the “franchise” player at the individual position. Sabermetrics and scouting reports can get stuffed.
Who is the better MLB player right now? A minor league prospect who isn’t even in the Majors or an All-Star player at the same position? This isn’t rocket science.
I’m confident enough in scouting and statistical analysis to create what I believe is an accurate assessment of a players ability before he proves it in the majors.
Fair enough, but we’re still talking about the best at the respective positions. Being confident in the future of a particular prospect is fine and dandy, but who knows how that person will actually perform at the Major League level? The kid could choke, could get injured, could have a million things happen to him.
If you’re not, that’s fine. You take Garret Anderson, I’ll take Delmon Young. And I’d imagine my team will be beating yours for a long, long time.
I imagine your prospects wont even start, since they’re currently in the minor leagues. But hey, what do I know? I’m a “prove it to me” type.
Who is the better MLB player right now? A minor league prospect who isn’t even in the Majors or an All-Star player at the same position? This isn’t rocket science.
Who cares? Did you even read the original post? Do you understand what a franchise player is?
I ask question A, and you’re getting pissy that I’m not answering question B.
The kid could choke, could get injured, could have a million things happen to him.
And, of course, all of these same things are true of the established veterans. Delmon Young is no more likely to get injured than Garrett Anderson. In fact, he’s almost certainly less likely.
You missed the entire point of the exercise.
Who cares? Did you even read the original post? Do you understand what a franchise player is?
Yes, the point of the exercise is “here’s the 25 guys you’d pick” if you were given the choice of all current players in the majors and minors, and thus, are in your opinion, the franchise quality players.
And I will restate: a player of “Franchise” quality cannot, by definition, be someone who hasn’t earned that title. Since “Franchise Player” is mostly an NFL term, I am going off that definition. I don’t care if you have another definition, the point of the matter is that these would be the most elite people to represent their positions. Not at all unlike what the All Star Game SHOULD be.
And, I will restate again that I think it’s all well and good that you think a minor league player has the potential to be a franchise player, but as of right now, it is irresponsible to slap a huge label like that on someone who hasn’t proven themselves. I am a prove it to me type, and I wear that label proudly. Every year we constantly examine and evaluate people who are supposed to be excellent ballplayers, but there are some that do not live up to their playing skillsets. Does this mean that they suck? Irrelevant. But would that make Adrian Beltre the “franchise” quality 3rd basemen over Troy Glaus? No. Glaus is having a better year. Right now, he is a better offensive 3rd basemen. Does that mean Glaus is better then Scott Rolen who is a good offensive and defensive 3rd basemen? Who knows? Matter of opinion. David Wright is starting to come into his own, so I can’t really contest this. But was David Wright of last year a franchise player over Adrian Beltre or Scott Rolen? No.
The makeups of the “franchise player” require that the player be of at least a certain performance quality, someone that the team can’t be without; an MVP if you will, but in thise case the MVP per position. If you had a choice, you’d take an unproven, though highly talented, second base prospect over two very good currently producing second base prospects. Your perrogative. But that doessn’t fit the definition of a franchise player.
Oh, and remember our e-mail? I’m deliberately trying not to personally attack you right now. But you seem to be going for ad hominem instead of actual debate. Again, your perrogative. But I think, deep down, you know I’m right about what it means to be a franchise player.
Holy crap, this has gotten ridiculously stupid for a fun original post.
Didn’t you say just this off season that Street had ‘average stuff’ and would never make the majors?
Umm, no.
I made the argument on John Sickels blog that Huston Street wasn’t the second best pitching prospect in the game. I’ll stand by that til the cows come home. Somehow, my comments got turned into a “Dave hates Huston Street” tangent, and now I’m viewed as some kind of anti-Street critic. It’s amazing.
what about Mike Young? I suppose he is being forced to play SS, however he is naturally a 2B. And next to Soriano, the second best 2B in the game (not to mention his much more sexy salary).
c – mauer
1b – pujols
2b – young
ss – tejada
3b – wright (cant afford pay-rod, love blalock, mora and ensberg too)
lf – bay (though carlos lee is a stud)
cf – hunter
rf – abreu
r. if – freel
r. if – cintron
r. if – olmedo saenz
4 of – emil brown (i dont think he is starting everyday)
5 of – sir charles gibson
util – tony clark (gotta give him props, hitting the cover off the ball)
1sp – j. peavy
2sp – d. willis
3sp – brett myers
4sp – chris young
5sp – eric bedard
cl – bj ryan
su – brazoban
go to guy (middle/set up) – jesse crain (he’s legit)
long relief – scot shields
lefty reliever – chris hammond (throwing well this year)
spot starter – aaron heilman (no question)
thanks for the distraction from work.
Holy crap, this has gotten ridiculously stupid for a fun original post.
You’re right DMZ. Just me taking things too seriously again. I do so love to spark a good arguement tho.
Didn’t you say just this off season that Street had ‘average stuff’ and would never make the majors?
I think you’re getting his comments about Houston Street confused with the comments he had about (I think it was) Craig Hansen who was taken first round by the Red Sox. Heck, after seeing Street pitch against the Mariners earlier this year, my only knock on the kid is that he might be in the Majors too soon. He had some pretty decent stuff and movement though.
Umm, I also never said that Craig Hansen had average stuff.
Changed your mind about Street, eh Dave?
http://www.minorleagueball.com/comments/2005/2/17/104923/585/75#75
Yep, he does throw 92-96 MPH, but I guess you were sort of right cause his [i]slider[/i] is 87 MPH.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/comments/2005/2/17/104923/585/64#64
http://www.minorleagueball.com/comments/2005/2/17/104923/585/41#41
http://www.minorleagueball.com/comments/2005/2/17/104923/585/25#25
Amazing that someone with “slightly above average stuff” can average over a K per inning, have a 1.59 ERA and .180 opponents average
[deleted — feel free to make this argument again without the cheap shot]
So in the first one, Dave says he’d seen Street and he threw 87-92, and that he’d talked to scouts that agree. So whatever, believe him or not, but then in the same fucking comment he says things like
Despite being the voice of negativity in this thread, I actually like Huston Street. I think he’s going to be a good major league pitcher. I just don’t think he’s one of the best few pitching prospects in the game, mostly because he’s limited to relief work.
That’s pretty positive, and it’s exactly what Dave’s said here.
Why does this stuff always have to get so nasty and arrogant? It’s not like Dave ran over someone’s dog while making obscene phone calls to rest homes or something.
[deleted — tone, name-calling]
Aaaaaaaaaaaand ding again. Nice. Go read the comment guidelines. Actually, don’t.
Greg Maddux, in his prime, had slightly above average stuff. It’s not that amazing that Street can be a solid reliever, and everything I said about him still be true.
so you still think Street has only slightly above average stuff? A fastball that’s 92-95 (yes Dave, that’s what he throws) with sink and a big breaking 88 MPH slider is only slightly above average? And Maddux only had slightly above average stuff? Come on, you’re mistaking velocity with stuff now. Yes he didn’t top 90 MPH, but the quality of his 2 seamer is the best of anyone in baseball history not to mention the movement of his slider and change. His stuff was well above average
How many games have you clocked Street on with a stalker sitting behind home plate? Just curious.