Mini FAQ
You can thank John Hickey for this post. In one column in Tuesday’s P-I, and one post on the P-I blog, he managed to move the Mariners from a figure in the shadows to the most notable team in Orlando. Not bad for 1,000 words. Since I know you guys are going to hammer the threads with these questions, let’s do a short Q&A about what I’m hearing about the rumors going around right now.
1. Are the Mariners really going after Manny Ramirez?
Yes and no. The Mariners and Red Sox have had multiple conversations about Ramirez, but they did not come to Orlando with the intention of walking away with Ramirez as their DH. The M’s established contact with the Red Sox to set themselves up as a backup plan in case things with the Dodgers didn’t work out and they found themselves looking for suitors for Manny. During talks last night and this morning, the Red Sox asked the Dodgers for every single player on their roster and $250 billion in gold bars, or something close to it, and the Dodgers understandably walked away.
At some point after that, the Red Sox called the M’s to establish a legitimate alternative option in case the deal with LA was irreconcilable. The Mariners know that a payroll with Manny can’t also include Richie Sexson, so the Giants were hauled in as a conduit. Brian Sabean has been after Sexson for months, and since he’s also been pursuing Ramirez but lacked the necessary trade chips to get something done, a three-way deal evolved as the logical answer.
So, they talked and laid the foundations for the possibility of a deal. The idea has been explored. But, and this is a big deal, this three-way trade isn’t the #1 option on any of these teams wish lists. The Red Sox want to deal with LA and rob them of some very good young talent. The Giants want Ramirez for themselves. The Mariners just want Jason Schmidt to stop trying to get a deal that locks him up through age 86 and sign on the dotted line.
This is a backup plan for all three teams, which makes it extremely unlikely that it’s going to happen. A friend asked me tonight what I thought the odds are of this deal going down and I told him 5%, or 10% if I really optimistic that minute. Either way, it’s a long shot.
2. You’ve said that the names in Hickey’s report aren’t completely accurate. Who is involved?
Sexson is involved. Everyone else on the roster not named Felix, Betancourt, or Ichiro is up for discussion. But there’s no deal on the table – there’s not an offer that sends Jones and Putz to Boston, Ramirez and Lowry to Seattle, and Sexson to San Francisco. All those names have been mentioned in discussions, but from what I understand, that’s not the trade that would happen. That deal wouldn’t work for Boston or San Francisco, and at that price, Los Angeles would get back in the game. And once LA is back in the game, the M’s are back to being Plan B.
3. Are the M’s really going after Barry Zito?
The M’s have called every pitcher with a pulse during the past few weeks. The team source that Hickey talked to was right – if the years were the same, of course you’d be interested in the younger guy. But it was a completely hypothetical statement, because the years aren’t anywhere close to the same. Jason Schmidt is going to get 4 years and is trying to get 5. Barry Zito wants 6 and might get 7, and Zito’s going to get more money per year to boot. I’m sure the M’s have talked about Barry Zito, and I’m sure there’s no chance that they actually sign him. With the Rangers involved in the bidding, it’s in the Mariners best interest to create a public perception of significant interest from other parties, but I don’t know of any offseason plan the Mariners have created that includes Barry Zito taking the hill on opening day of 2007.
4. Tim Hudson? Adam LaRoche? Where are these names coming from?
Depending on who you talk to, the Braves and Mariners may or may not have talked about a deal this afternoon that would have swapped pitchers and first baseman and cash, and they may or may not have talked about using Atlanta in lieu of San Francisco as the third team in a Manny deal. There are a lot of deals to be made with the Braves that make a lot of sense for the Mariners – there are significantly less that makes sense for John Schuerholz and crew.
5. What do you think of all these moves?
There are so many permutations of each rumor that it’s impossible to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on potential deals. But I will say this – the M’s are talking about making the right kind of deal, and that makes me happier than anything. They’ve clearly decided that if they’re going to pay superstar prices for talent, they’re actually going to try to get a superstar for the money, and that’s the best conclusion they could have come to.
I don’t think the Mariners are going to end up with Manny Ramirez, Tim Hudson, or Adam LaRoche, but we should all love the fact that they’re trying.
99: Because every human being should spend every waking moment becoming better at his or her job.
Looks like a Manny deal is looking pretty slim for the M’s according to this at MLB.com…. Bummer!
Eventually it will make people realize that those kinds of contracts are idiotic, and that will help us.
Mike Hampton didn’t do it. Why would Zito/Soriano/Lee?
Boston probably asked the M’s to “toss in” Felix and Clement in addition to Jones and Putz. I suppose if LAA is willing to part with 3 or 4 A/A+ prospects, that’s something we’ll just have to deal with.
When you’re getting paid 10 million dollars a year to do it? Yes.
Truthfully, Boston has some nerve….I hope they get stuck with Manny… 🙂
#104– tell that to America’s CEOs 🙂
#101 Looks like a Manny deal is looking pretty slim for the M’s according to this at MLB.com…. Bummer!
it looked pretty slim according to Dave’s original post …
By Jon Heyman, SI.com
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. — The Red Sox are about to call a halt to the Manny Ramirez trade-a-thon, leaving five teams disappointed to varying degrees (six if you count the Yankees).
Red Sox people on Tuesday were saying they had virtually lost hope of anyone matching their requests, leaving the state of Manny talks as something along the lines of “all but dead.”
When you’re getting paid 10 million dollars a year to do it? Yes.
If the way one does what one does to be paid 10 million dollars a year doesn’t require one to spend every waking moment to accomplish, the rest of one’s time is free to spend as one pleases. *shrug* I’m usually very hesitant to ‘should’ people, which perspective I recommend to you.
#108: Pure brinksmanship.
I can’t remember what was going on when Manny was offered on waivers two yeras ago. Did the M’s seriously consider it? Did the blogosphere think it was a good idea? As I remember no one took it that seriously as a good possibility, but my memory may be wrong
FWIW, ESPN News is reportiong the Red Sox signed JD Drew to a 5-year / $70 million deal.
111. No one even put in a waver claim at that time because his contract was so out of line with the going rates at the time. Now of course its considered a good deal.
My question about Manny’s contract is concerning the no-trade clause. Is it an actual clause in the contract or is it due to his 10-5 rights? Meaning would it be possible to flip him in a year or two without having to generate a list of teams he’d find acceptable?
Manny’s no-trade is written into his contract I believe. I don’t think it has anything to do with 10-5 rights.
I doubt very much that if you deprive players of any leisure time and any hobbies and make them spend that time working and practicing instead that you end up with more productive ballplayers.
I would like to see son go to the redsox.
He would get 55 saves.
Putz is soooooooo te
truthfully…screw the BoSox…. they liked the deal when they took it on……now enjoy the final few years….
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2687700
Maddux agrees with Pads…. 1YR/ $10m
The Red Sox are smart, they don’t HAVE to move Manny. So they ask for the moon, and if someone bites, great! If not, they still have Manny and his Hall of Fame bat next season.
It seems like a win-win situation to me.
Maddux at $10M for one year? Hmmm. I guess that is an OK deal, given the going rate. He is obviously in decline, but he also brings the added revenue of being a sure-fire hall-of-famer who will sell some tickets. Plus, maybe he can work his grandfatherly magic on young Mr. Peavy?
Aside from the fact that Manny wants to leave Boston, yeah – the Sawks are in a great spot…
Manny’s wanted to leave Boston lots of times before. It doesn’t seem to hurt his hitting.
Maybe it is hurting his hitting. Think about THAT!
Yahoo says Seattle is one of the teams interested in Gil Meche for 4 years. I hope that is just them bidding out of respect. But if they really can’t sign anyone else…
The Red Sox are smart, they don’t HAVE to move Manny. So they ask for the moon, and if someone bites, great! If not, they still have Manny and his Hall of Fame bat next season.
Exactly. In the worst case scenario, they have a great hitter who hurts them defensively. Sure he’s kind of a headcase, but he’s still a very valuable hitter. The fact that there are multiple teams that are apparently not only willing to pay his salary but also give up talent to acquire him speaks to his value.
The idea that Michael Garciaparra’s resurgence this winter would be enough for him to be more than a throw in in a trade at present seems like a stretch to me. He has value, but nowhere near Jones or Clement, even to Boston.
I’m sad to hear that Boston isn’t stupid enough and the M’s aren’t lucky enough for that trade rumor to be true. I didn’t think it could be that easy in the first place.
I posted this in the previous link, and the only answer I’ve heard is the thought of Ibanez playing first, which I’ve seen firsthand and would like to avoid seeing again in an M’s uniform.
“Right now between 4OF/DH/1B (6 spots) we’ve got Ichiro, Chris, Jose, Raul, Richie, Ben, Jeremy, Adam and Mike Morse as possible players on the roster. After signing Guillen the talk was that this enabled the M’s to trade Sexson and/or Broussard. If you trade Sexson to lighten up the log-jam and get back an OF/DH type you aren’t removing anything (except a 1Bman). If you trade Sexson and Broussard you have to add a 1Bman unless you want to see Ibanez look bad enough that you have to acquire a 1Bman a month into the season, try Morse there which might end up as bad and gives him ABs you’d rather see others on the roster get or watch Bloomquist get 500 AB and really all the other problems apply with him starting even more so (except, possibly, defense). I don’t mind the idea of adding Ramirez, but fitting him into the lineup
C Johjima
1B?
2B Lopez
3B Beltre
SS Betancourt
LF Doyle
CF Ichiro
RF Guillen
DH Manny
It looks like Ibanez is playing first base (bad idea) or the FO plans on trading him or another OF/DH type and picking up a 1Bman. I don’t mind the idea of trading Ibanez, but who here thinks the M’s are looking at that route? Ichiro? They just signed Guillen and (if trade goes through) just got Manny, so it looks like they’ll play Ibanez at first or trade Snelling. Which would you prefer? I like neither, but I have to say in this scenario I’d rather see them get some pitching help back for Snelling than watch Ibanez at first again. Another problem with this is it leaves the team with two players who you’d rather see DH, (Ibanez and Manny)so you have to bench one or play one in the field. It’s possible Manny could be adequate at 1B, but he’s never done it in MLB. I don’t see how Manny makes sense unless they’re willing to trade Ibanez, and then you’re replacing Ibanez and Sexson with Guillen and Manny. You get talent back too, but I’m talking about Offensive production. It doesn’t look like as much of an improvement as it looks before thinking about how everyone’s getting playing time. Maybe there’s some other way to work that out, but I don’t see it.
I’d rather see the team get pitching and MiLers back for the pieces they’re trading and Willis and Lowry aren’t the only options. As long as you’d only be expecting a #2-3 type starter out of Willis and the pieces being traded aren’t too out of line with that I like the idea of trading for him.”
It’s been discussed that Willis could be out of baseball within a few years because of his odd mechanics and overuse at a young age. He did have a down year last year and it seems he may already be in decline. His control was bad (almost horrible) in 06 and oddly his GO/AO went up significantly. I’m not sure much can be expected out of Willis’ career at this point, but he might be a chance worth taking.
FWIW, Hickey & Bavasi are both to be on KOMO at 7. I’m guessing that Hickey has a few things to say about the meetings, and that Bill carefully avoids saying much of anything.
Heyman:
It’s interesting that Manny apparently supplied a list of 13 teams he’d be willing to be traded to, and Seattle was among them. Now, that’s not a huge endorsement — 13 is just shy of half the teams in the league, more than half if he’s tilted towards the AL, and there are a bunch of bottom feeders he’s not going to list (and have no chance of trading for him or paying him anyway) — but it’s kind of amazing a last-place team in a cold, dark corner of the country didn’t land on his “no” list.
I’m guessing that Hickey has a few things to say about the meetings, and that Bill carefully avoids saying much of anything.
There you go again, msb, with the wild-eyed predictions. You’re like some kind of northwest Nostradamus…
apparently he had the entire west coast on the list.
Manny’s no-trade is written into his contract I believe.
Exactly wrong. As a matter of policy, the Red Sox do not give out no-trade clauses in their contracts.
Manny’s contract stated that if any other Red Sox player got a no-trade, he would too. So the Red Sox jumped through hoops to conjur up language that would give Varitek the no-trade protection he insisted on in his current deal without giving it to Manny.
Since he signed with the Red Sox in 2001 after six years in Cleveland, Manny now has 10/5 rights.
#121: Manny wants to be inducted into the Hall of Fame more than he wants to leave Boston. By many account, it is Mrs. Ramirez who wants Manny out of Boston.
#111: I can’t remember what was going on when Manny was offered on waivers two yeras ago.
The team’s putting Manny on waivers made it clear to him that, despite what he thought, the Yankees would not make a trade to pick him up and fulfill his childhood dream of playing his home games in New York. (A dream he shared with Joe Morgan on national TV, no less!) If NY wouldn’t pick him up “for free,” that told him all he needed to know about NY’s interest.
That was the offseason when Vladimir Guerrero was a free agent. Clearing that salary would have opened up payroll room to either throw money at Vlad or take A-Rod in a salary dump trade from Texas. No hitter on the market today (at any price, whether by trade or free agency) can fill Manny’s spot in the Red Sox lineup.
Manny’s not going anywhere. Bold prediction: This same saga will play itself out next year, with only the names of the teams changing.
There you go again, msb, with the wild-eyed predictions. You’re like some kind of northwest Nostradamus…
hmm, wonder if I still have the tape with Dave Thomas starring in the fine SCTV movie, Mr. Know-It-All: The Life of Nostradamus (“I knew you were going to say that”)
Bill says that they are laying the groundwork, talking to lots of clubs, and that it would be nice if they left with something done.
Blow is stunned by the length of contracts being offered pitchers.
There wouldn’t be any luck involved if the Ms were the recipient of Manny. It mostly starts with a willingness to take on payroll so that the Ms could take advantage of Boston’s desire to shed payroll. Getting rid of $38M AND getting a guy like Putz….well that would be more like winning the lottery wouldn’t it?
Bill on pitching: “we would look at anyone”
some nuggets:
earlier this winter, Kenny Williams was willing to trade the M’s Freddy if they threw in Felix.
speaking of Felix, Bill says that in fact Felix has been doing more than watching tv and sleeping — the word from the Dominican Academy is that he is doing his work and looks good.
Raffy has pitched in the DR, had some balls come back at him through the box, and he has been fine with it.
per Hickey, the Cards are going after Schmidt and he thinks the lure of the WS Champs might be greater than home & a 3-year losing streak in which case they may have to go for Zito & 5 years because ‘they have to get one of those two guys’
a solo Manny deal would prob. have to be Richie, Reed, Putz … by the afternoon, the lobby buzz had built the earlier trade scenarios into a 4-team trade…
You know, speculating about 3-way deals: Boston clearly is looking for a closer (with Papelbon moving to the rotation). I wonder if Bavasi could rig something where Soriano or Putz goes to Boston, Boston sends somebody(s) to Colorado, and the Rockies send Jennings to Seattle (with whatever throw-ins are necessary along the way to even up all the sides). Just a thought.
Eventually, Boston will end up including 15 teams with the BoSox getting several prospects, shedding Manny’s salarly completely and still keeping him for the remainiing four years…. 🙂 Meanwhile Theo will shoot lightning from his arse in the hotel lobby to the chorus of ***FRRRRRREEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM****
Yes, I’m tired of hearing about Manny…. 🙂
Dan Wilson will be back at the U Village center court this sat from 12-2 for his annual drive (this year for the Guatemalan orphanage his youngest came from) He’ll trade autographs for new toys, diapers, medicines, money… btw, Dan has been coaching the kids and getting a start on finishing his degree, and could see getting back into baseball a-ways down the road.
and Dave Valle would be expecially happy if you wanted to donate to esperanza.org for Christmas.
How about this nugget from the teams site
A source indicated late Tuesday that Seattle might have interest in sending slugger Richie Sexson to the Giants and reliever Rafael Soriano to the Braves. In return, the Mariners would receive a starting pitcher (Tim Hudson) and a first baseman (Adam LaRoche).
Thats a deal I could live with!
might?
It sounds like a good idea. But in the last 28 years, only three teams have repeated as champions (the Yankees twice and the Blue Jays once), and only one other team (Minnesota) won a second championsip within five years. Signing with the defending champion is not a great way to pursue a chamionship in baseball.