David Wells
Dave · August 14, 2007 at 9:33 pm · Filed Under Mariners
At some point, even the most stubborn Horacio Ramirez supporter has to admit that he’s not a major league pitcher. The question has long since ceased to be whether the team should stick with him. The more appropriate question is who should replace him in the rotation.
David Wells is still free. Give it a try.
What about Contreras? he’s on waivers isnt he? or Igawa? I know neither have been Cy Young this year but Contreras has had a great career and Igawa would probably like being with Ichiro and Johjima. I would much rather have either of these pitchers than Horacio
I don’t think David Wells is a good option simply because I’m pretty sure he’s finished. He’s 44 years old, and he has looked just awful over the last couple of months. The difference between Ramirez and Wells is from “Worst Pitcher in the League” to “Below Average.” And that’s a charitable description. If all we’re looking for is someone who can eat innings and be the fifth best starter in our makeshift rotation, there’s two or three guys who fit that bill in the Mariners organization right now – and I’m reasonably certain there’s other free arms out there as well.
The thing about your analysis of Wells is that it completely ignores age as a factor. It’s entirely possible – and given Wells’ “conditioning,” it’s actually the most likely explanation – that David Wells effectiveness as a major league starting pitcher is gone. He’s 44 years old.
Would I rather have Wells than Ramirez? You bet. But it’s not an either-or proposition.
Woody Williams? He’s got the extra year on his deal (yuck), but I don’t see anything out there. Then again, the fact that I’m bringing him up probably should be a hint that the M’s are kinda stuck.
Well, there is one option that nobody has mentioned.
http://ussmariner.com/2007/04/22/bloomquist-pitcher/
I know this might have been mentioned before, but when is management willing to move Morrow in as a starter? Hed be an upgrade over HoRam. (well, almost anyone would be an upgrade over HoRam). Possibly in September and we get more relief in the bullpen? Or maybe management can DFA HoRam and use the fifth spot as a place to audition up and coming arms, kind of like what they did last year with Jake Woods and Cha Seung Baek.
53 – hey, the D-Backs did it tonight, looked like it worked quite well for them.
” That meant that after 2 2/3 innings from Juan Cruz and one by Doug Slaten, Melvin turned to infielder Augie Ojeda to finish things off in the ninth.
“I told BoMel in the fifth inning, ‘If you need anything, I’ll help you out.'” Ojeda said. “It was one of those games where, as a player, you know it’s going to be a long day. The bullpen starting pitching in the first inning and you don’t want to use your horses in a blowout so I told him, ‘if you need me, I really want to help this team out.'” Unfortunately it happened, but it was one of those days.”
Ojeda was the most efficient of all the D-backs pitchers as he retired the Marlins in order on two flyouts and a lineout.
“We ended up having to use Augie at the end there, which lightened the mood up there a little bit,” Melvin said. “It’s the first time I’ve had to do that and this is my fifth year managing.” “
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
Page 2 – Where we’re loving us some Richie Sexson today.
54- Marrow is not starting anytime soon. He would need to return to the minors to learn how to do that. As of now he just throws the ball very very hard, that wont cut it as a starter. He lacks the pitches and control to start, not the mention the arm strength. This is his first full year of professional ball and we have already seen him struggle with fatigue.
Wow, that should have been Morrow. I don’t know how that happened.
I was at the game last night and if there ARE any stubborn Horacio Ramirez supporters left I doubt that any of them were sitting in the stands. The fans did, however, cheer nearly every move that Richie Sexson made after having been guilt-tripped over the past 24 hours about booing him.
I think we need to give HoRam a month off and see if he can return better than before.
Yes, that’s how pitchers improve their terrible pitching!
Is there any talk of simply going to a four-man rotation (with the occasional spot start as needed) the rest of the way?
I’d take that option over a guy like Wells, and the longer Wells waits before making his retire-or-not decision makes my opinion more resolute. If Seattle really doesn’t have internal options better than him, they need to follow the Jim Bowden Plan this offseason, sign 20 mediocre AAAA pitchers and keep the few who do well in spring training in the organization for emergencies like this one.
11 – I was at that game, even spelled Ichiro on my chest in Japanese with some friends. I left in the 7th, only to turn on the radio about an hour later to hear the Indians had come all the way back. If anyone is to blame for their recent woes, its me along with my fateful decision to leave early that day.
We could have Jones pitch. That would be a way to get his bat in the line-up.
Seriously, someone in previous post said that Baek is rehabbing. So maybe he can come back soon.
Why is Seattle so obsessed with ‘experience’? Saying a guy has experience has got to be the biggest masking of suckage I’ve ever witnessed. When you got Bonds on the team you don’t say he’s good because he’s experienced, you say he’s good because he crushes things. Smoltz isn’t experienced, he’s JOHN SMOLTZ. Hey guys, Parrish is experienced…at freaking losing. It’ll pay off in the long run, for the guy blowing games and getting a bloated salary, but the fans get the shaft. A neat idea would be for the management to put up polls and allow the fans to choose who stays and who goes. If I ever get loads of cash I’ll try to buy a team and do that. You might just see Bernie Mac at the plate.
The Legend of the Chaves Letter lives on in this Slate article on Pitch f/x:
http://www.slate.com/id/2172223/
It was obviously a matter of time before his home/away split would catch up with one another. This rotation may be lucky enough to win a pennant, but I seriously doubt it’s going to win any world series.
1 usually good pitcher
1 fair pitcher
2 terribly inconsistent pitchers
and of course ho-ram in a category all his own.
hmm. of all the former Mariners on the Long Island Ducks to go ballistic…
Face it, you’ve got a month and a half to go and you still have the hang off the edge of a cliff with your fingernails rotation you started the season with. You already HAVE 1 guy who’s having close to a career year (Batista), 1 guy you spent half the season screaming to be DFAed (Weaver), 1 guy who hasn’t lived up to expectation (8 wins is a long way from 20), 1 guy you knew you’d get mediocre performance from (Washburn) and… Ramirez. These are your rotation and worse, they’re the same dudes that management felt were adequate when they picked them up in the offseason and apparently still think ARE adequate for a playoff run. Insanity.
Further insanity. Thinking any of those arms in Tacoma are going to help you. Christ, they haven’t even helped the RAINIERS in any kind of a consistent manner, other than maybe Campillo, maybe Rohrbaugh and that’d be a helluva long stretch for either of them if they’re even on the 40 man (which I don’t think they are).
Over the top. Hey, let’s take some guy who’s been a reliever all year, maybe even his whole career, and slap him in a ML starting rotation in a playoff run.
I know not what some of you are smoking, but I’d like some.
65 (msb)
Wow, to charge the mound with a bat, THEN swing the bat and break a pitchers’ finger? That takes the cake.
Ho-Ram is toast. I think everyone agrees you can’t be in a pennant race (with 3 games to make up) and put him out there every fifth day.
Jose Contreras is the best solution out there. He has pitched much better lately. He had a couple of impressive bullpen sessions this week and is scheduled to start Friday here in Seattle. Nab him on Friday morning!!
He’s owed $9mill for next year, which means he’ll clear waivers and we can get him for next to nothing. He still has a live arm and has had good success (recently) in the AL.
35 –
No. The NYY had 114W in 1998. We had 116 in 2001. We did not tie the NYY. We tied the 1906 Cubs. (Granted they did it in fewer games.)
Josh Towers just cleared waivers. Any interest out there? Maybe not…
Dave, I don’t know if this has been covered (and if it has can someone please refer me) but what do you think of giving Rowland-Smith a try at the back of the rotation? Admittedly, not a great showing last night, but he’s a big kid with good velocity and nice K/BB ratio. His BAA and OPSA are crappy, but I just get stuck on that K/BB thing and think there could be regression to the mean. Am I way off base? Thanks.
DMZ, sorry, didn’t see you had been on this thread. If you had any thoughts on 73 that would be great too. Also, I like that RRS works fast. I know that’s not a quantifiable thing, but still.
Also, here’s another question: Why are we not considering O’Flaherty in the rotation? He’s gone more than two innings six times this year, including 4.2 mopping up for Batista against the Yanks back in May. He wouldn’t be able to go more than five to start, but he’s proven to be effective against both lefties and righties.
I know we don’t want to cut off our nose to spite our collective face, but at some point doesn’t it make the bullpen stronger to have a stronger rotation?
O’Flaherty and RRS can’t start. It’s not an option.
If the Mariners had gotten Ramirez as a free agent or given up some a-ball no name for him, Horacio Ramirez would have been traded at the deadline.
But because we traded Rafael Soriano for him, the leash is a bit longer, its the same with Jeff Weaver.
But why not let Feirband or Baek take his place, at least on the road where he has a pittiful record. Brandon Morrow, Kevin O’Flarety, Sean green are all options as well.
As we move down the stretch we can’t afford poor starts, or bad choices on Mclarrens part. He needs to put the right people on the mound and the right people on the field in order for us to stay with the Yankees.
76 — Why? Is it an organizational decision?
So, the O’Flaherty and RRS are out. Morrow can’t start for multiple reasons. Contreras has been discussed and the problem is he’s owed $8M next year and in 2009.
Obviously the USSM supported solution is Wells :). But if Wells won’t come to Seattle, choses some place else, management passes (the likely option) or comes here and IS done, what then? Do we wait until Baek is ready and throw a replacement level 5th starter out there; putting up with a couple of starts from Ramirez? Should we try Feierabend again, or is that not an improvement?
Still amazed to have so have many gaping holes (5th SP, DH, 1B, LF) and still have the 3rd best record in baseball. Would love to see a post on how we’ve overcome that huge obstacle.
O’Flaherty has a long history of back problems and was moved to the bullpen to keep him healthy. RRS simply doesn’t throw hard enough as a starter to get by.
Remember, almost everyone sees a significant uptick in the quality of their stuff when they go max effort, which they can do all the time in relief. Move them to the rotation and you’d see significantly worse stuff and much worse results.
No doubt, Dave. I just wasn’t aware of O’Flaherty’s health issues.
Is there any chance they’re just trying to wait for Sept. 1 to get a guy who’s not on the 40-man in there? Are they even considering a guy like Tillman?
No, you won’t see Tillman in the majors this year, nor should you.
Do you see the M’s letting Ho-Ram pitch on Monday against the Twins and then possibly making a change? By then they will have less than two weeks to set the playoff roster. So you would think..
Not saying it would/should be him, just wondering if there’s an arm out there they think they can challenge, given the absolute dearth of starting pitching talent at Tacoma.
I think there’s a decent chance they use the offday to just skip the 5th spot in the rotation this time through, delyaing the decision another week or so. And if Jose Contreras shuts them down on Friday, I wouldn’t be shocked if he was a Mariner by Saturday.
What’s the story with Baek’s health? He’s not great but is preferable to HoRam, IMO.
Someone made a whiffle ball comment earlier.
In all seriousness, there has got a to be a knuckleballer floating around somewhere, waiting for a chance at a spot start. Wasn’t Wade Boggs trying to come back as a knuckleballer for a while?
A knuckleballer might have a great shot on a cool september game at the safe.
Just heard on KJR that McLaren said in his pregame meeting with reporters that Ho would make his next start.
[Shaking head …]
Just checked BP and Contreras is quite the upgrade over Ho-Ram from -17.5 VORP to -15.
Maybe they should consider having 3 guys throw 3 innings each from the bullpen instead of HoRam. RRS, EO and Morrow could probably do a great job that way.
While Wells maybe a short answer to the Ramirez problem I highly doult he’ll sign with the M’s.
Remember all that talk that Jason Schmilt wanting to pitch here and what did he do?He signed with the LA Dodgers.
No the M’s have to look inhouse for a solution to this particular Bavasi special:
Freierabend isn’t quite MLB ready yet so he’s out.
Baek is still injuried and this is no return date for him that I’m aware of.
Rohrbaugh a LHPer recently promoted from AA tho on a 4 game wins maybe find AAA a struggle because he is reported be a Moyer type soft thrower.
May need at least 2 seasons in AAA to make the adjustments so to baffle MLB hitters.
So with that said what’s left in AAA:
Lehr
Campillo
neither is on the 40 man roster so in order to consider either someone has to be risked in waivers.
Remove Horacio from the rotation? When he’s on the verge of surpassing Dick Pole as the worst single-season pitcher in M’s history?