A goldmine of Howard Lincoln goodness
Things that, on first glance, are provably false:
– Every year is a franchise record in payroll
– That they were sixth in MLB payroll, that they spent $113m on payroll (unless you want to buy their now-standard crazy every-year-inflating accounting)
– Payroll in 1992 was between $35 and $40m
Things that are not provably wrong:
– They’ve closed the gap between the M’s and the Angels
– “It looks like we’re heading in the right direction.”
– “we have one heck of a starting rotation”
Things that are at best misleading:
– “We’re not as large as a city or area of many teams that have lower player payrolls.” [sic]
Things that could be considered true:
– The Angels swept the M’s Aug 27-29 because they had better starting pitching (the Angels scored 8 runs a game, and the M’s had three poor starts in a row, though one of the Angels starts was Santana’s one-out disaster, when their bullpen carried them through the rest of the game)
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“Howie, you’re doing a heckuva job”
Really, the problem here is a misquote. In the article, it says:
“You have to knock on wood, because you just don’t know, but I feel awfully, awfully good about this team.”
when what he really said was:
“You have to knock your head on wood, because you just don’t know, but I feel awful, awful, god, about this team.”
The only way “Howard Lincoln” and “goodness” should be in the same sentence is if they’re followed by “resigning effective immediately”. Imho.
“The surge is working! You cowards want to cut and run!”
If we had a great front office, maybe we get Bedard without giving up Jones…
If we had a good front office, we would join the rest of the AL and get a designated hitter for our pitchers
The item under “misleading” was the one that upset me the most. The M’s have a huge market. It extends into Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, and Western Montana. I can’t think of one team with a lower payroll that has a significant economic advantage over the M’s. They do, however, have significant advantages in baseball management skills.
You missed British Columbia. There’s a metropolitan area of 2.5 million people just across the border, every one of them less than a 3 hour drive from Safeco.
Spring is the season for irrational self-delusion among fans and some players; I guess we now have conclusive evidence it extends to upper management too.
Perhaps the quote from Howard in that interview that was the most astonishing, the most damning, the most revealing about their impoverished thinking, and among the most provably mistaken:
“…we decided, as a group, that it made sense that in order to get a talent like Bedard, and plug that big hole that hurt us so much last year when every other part of the team was functioning well, was too good to pass up.”
#1 – if only that would be followed by a contradictory firing in the near future…
“Last year at this time our focus was on getting past Oakland,” he said. “No one was bad-mouthing the Angels and the focus during our discussions and what not was beating Oakland. That was our number one objective and we did that.”
I thought this quote at the very end of the article was the most … “interesting” shall we say. Shouldn’t the #1 focus ALWAYS be “Winning the Division” and not be so focused on one team, especially a team that didn’t contend?! So don’t get a sore arm from patting yourself on the back, Howard, for beating the A’s last year. WTF?!
@8
Hi Evan
Point taken. But there’s a few hundred thousand of us in British Columbia that can’t drive to Safeco quite that easily.
Gordon in Victoria
Actually, if you’re talking about the Capital Regional District (aka greater Victoria) you’re looking at 400,000+ who are less than 3 hours away by Victoria Clipper — they don’t even have to drive, and they can walk to Safeco at the Seattle end. Even more if you include Nanaimo and the rest of the lower island, though it’s a longer hike for them. But all of them can watch M’s games on TV. And all of them have currency that’s at or above par these days.
With a Canadian as the big name acquisition and “#1” pitcher, and another rising star deep in the system, the M’s could do a much better job of marketing over the border than they do. And not just when the Blue Jays come to town.
Oops, the italics should have been around “less” rather than “than” 🙄
12- Well, the As were the defending AL West Champions going into the season, and they absolutely destroyed us head-to-head (didn’t Seattle only win ONE of the games?), so I don’t think his quote, or the team goals were that far off…
Lincoln sure comes off as being more proud of what he spends on team payroll than on-field performance.
I can only imagine how badly it must chap his ass to get beat silly by those cheap-o Oakland As more often than not.
Howard’s simplistic, single-variable, linear thinking is pathetic… “focus only on starting pitching” (check) “’07 – focus only on Oakland” (check) “’08 – focus only on the Angels” “take a risk for risk’s sake” “we have a big payroll – we’ve done all that can be expected”
he is and will continue getting beat silly 6 ways to Sunday…
16 – Good point. I forgot the M’s we 2-17 the year before vs the A’s, however I still find it mis-guided. Maybe the #1 goal should be to win your division and included in that is beating the A’s, but it should include beating the Angels and Rangers as well.
It just continues to prove that the M’s FO & Ownership are not focused on how to build a winner. He is proud of how “much” $$ they are spending and not focused on how to spend it properly.
I’m completely comfortable with the notion that if the Ms win a ton of games they’ll have a chance to be in the playoffs but if they don’t win a lot, they simply don’t deserve to be in them. Furthermore, they could very well be better than the Angels if they win more games then them. It’s all going to depend upon how the Ms play at home and on the road.
Terry- You should run the team…or at least be in charge of the PR department…wow…you really can’t say it better than that…nice…
Well, you’re outside that metropolitan area. Folks in Prince Rupert can’t get the Seattle in less than two days unless they fly.
But I live right in Vancouver, and I’m a 2.5 hour drive from Safeco.
Isn’t there ferry service between Victoria and Seattle?
When I vacationed in B.C. last summer (South Okanagon Valley), I got the sense that it is a Blue Jay market. What makes Seattle valuable beyond its immediate metro area population is its immense radio and TV coverage and the money it brings in. Do the M’s have radio/TV revenue streams coming from Vancouver or anywhere else in B.C?
Who asks Howard Lincoln for an autograph?
I doubt Howard Lincoln knows this, but there is passenger ferry service between Victoria and downtown Seattle (the Victoria Clipper, as pointed out by joser), and car ferry service (during baseball season) between Sidney, BC and Anacortes, WA (which requires about a 90 minute drive to downtown Seattle).
Victoria residents should welcome a trip to Seattle — their dollar is strong, the streets are devoid of Christmas-themed shops, and no one will stop them on the street to ask “where are the Gardens?”
True. At the moment.
However, you’d think a good marketer could make inroads into that…
Only a Canadian with an upside-down compass would consider any part of British Columbia to be in the “South” Okanogan Valley.
Washington geography dork, over and out.
Even without adding the rest of the Pacific Northwest, etc, the Seattle metro area is a large market, and the continuing efforts of Mariners management to convince the world otherwise — rarely if ever contradicted by the major media — are simply a big manipulative lie.
I’d imagine the Mariners have been making a handsome sum from Japan as well. Is there ever any sort of estimate/breakdown on that?
Yup.
It’s the exact same revenue as all the other baseball clubs get–they share all Japanese reveunue.
Considering that 100% of the Okanagan, spelled thus, is in BC, I think it’s safe to say the south part is too. Okanogan is how the Washington portion is spelled. I don’t think the Mariners care very much about either; relatively few people live in either. Nor are they interested in the handful of ferry riders from Vancouver Island. Sorry, folks, but the money is where the people and the stadium and the TV viewers are.
But the truth is, Seattle’s the eighth-largest media market in the country, and higher than that if you account for wealth, if I remember my numbers correctly. Remember too that several of the larger ones are shared. We’re not small. Our revenues put us, what, fourth? Or did, before we started to suck again.
There is some Japanese revenue that isn’t shared — the not-inconsiderable number of Japanese tourists who make their way to Safeco.
Which is probably why the Mariners were in such a frenzy to re-sign Ichiro last year before he hit the open market. Imagine all those lost Japanese revenues for the Mariners. if Ichiro had gone to the Yankmes to joion Matsui or Sox and join Dice-K. They would have Johjima still, but I imagine he isn’t as big of a name in Japan as Ichiro is.
[dupe]
Woops. Sorry about the double post.
What is the deal with this site? i really don’t understand whats up with the people here. Considering you state that Lincoln’s claims are “at first glance, provably false,” it’s astounding that you don’t have any of this evidence on hand to back up your claims.
It’s not hard, at all, to see that the Mariners were indeed 6th in payroll last year with over $100 million. Seeing as that was the first time the team had ever spent more than $100 million on a season, I’m pretty sure that qualifies as a franchise record.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003572621_marimoney15.html
I’m interested to see your evidence about how the average payroll in ’92 wasn’t $35-40 mil, and I seriously doubt that you actually know whether or not the Mariner’s payroll has been increasing in recent years, since you didn’t even know what it was last year.
Also, while Lincoln’s quote is arguably a bit misleading, the Seattle/Tacoma market is actually 14th in the country… Just behind St.Petersberg/Tampa (according to the Nielson Company). Pretty sure the Rays have a lower payroll than the mariners.
For a site that claims to look at statistics, this site sure seems to have a lot of opinion based information.
29: MLB shares revenue from sales in Japan and other overseas markets equally, so out of every Ichiro jersey sold in Tokyo, the Ms get exactly as much as the Rays.
it’s astounding that you don’t have any of this evidence on hand to back up your claims.
What makes you think we don’t have evidence on hand?
It’s not hard, at all, to see that the Mariners were indeed 6th in payroll last year with over $100 million.
Our complaints with the Seattle Times continually printing whatever payroll figures the M’s give them are well-chronicled here, but suffice it to say that they’re just this side of total fiction.
The USA Today payroll figures have the M’s seventh, behind the Dodgers, with a $107m payroll.
I’m pretty sure that qualifies as a franchise record.
The argument was with the statement that every year it’s a record, which is clearly not true – go look at the M’s payroll over time and you’ll see where it dips.
I’m interested to see your evidence about how the average payroll in ‘92 wasn’t $35-40 mil,
That’s not what Howard was saying. In 1992 the M’s payroll was $22.5m. You can go look that up yourself.
and I seriously doubt that you actually know whether or not the Mariner’s payroll has been increasing in recent years, since you didn’t even know what it was last year.
Uh huh. I can see where taking a different viewpoint than the one you seem to hold clearly establishes that I have no idea what I’m talking about.
For a site that claims to look at statistics, this site sure seems to have a lot of opinion based information.
You seem to be willing to make a lot of fact-free assumptions about what I do and don’t know.
There is some Japanese revenue that isn’t shared — the not-inconsiderable number of Japanese tourists who make their way to Safeco.
I’m sure they also sell a ton of merchandise in Mariner team stores to Japanese tourists.
Doc Baseball @ 10 – That sure jumped out at me too. Apparently defense is not a part of the team, nor having a productive DH I suppose.
Oh and JLC, I was wondering that too, I mean seriously, are you going to go show off your Howard Lincoln autograph to all your friends? That should get em jealous for sure!
So OK, Lincoln is Captain of the Good Ship Lollipop. And yes, the Moose would probably have a better year at DH than Vidro. But I don’t care anymore. I think were going to make the Playoffs this Year. There. I said it.
… nor is any offense from your first baseman, or any offense from your second baseman…