M’s Extend Johjima
Well, this is a bit surprising – the M’s have locked Kenji Johjima up through the 2011 season. No financial details to report, but I was told that this was “a good deal” for the M’s. Considering that Johjima took less money to play in Seattle initially, it’s not a huge surprise that he’d take a below market deal to stick around.
Despite his early struggles, he’s still an above average catcher right now, but I do wonder how much he’ll have left to contribute beyond 2008. Signing him through his age 35 season is a classic M’s move, as they consistently show willingness to have bad long term contracts in exchange for some short term rewards.
The bigger news is that this almost certainly means that Jeff Clement’s days behind the plate are numbered. The M’s wouldn’t have extended Johjima if they were optimistic that Clement was anywhere close to being ready (in their opinion) to be behind the plate regularly. Johjima’s extension means Clement’s going to end up at 1B or DH, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the organization start trying him out at first base in Tacoma in the not too distant future.
100 – NO.
I think the only issue I have with extending Johjima is that with Bavasi, he may now feel like he can make a move and package Clement with a bunch of other prospects to grossly over pay for a player.
I honestly don’t hate Johjima or this deal, just hate what it could potentially means in terms of what they do with Clement.
I guess they could possibly reduce Kenji’s play time over the next couple of years by splitting it with Clement more and more as time goes on and having them both share time at DH also, but that doesn’t really make sense.
uh, yeah. like that.
fwiw, Moyer’s alleged problems with Joh were not communication, but that Joh was still in a learning curve when they worked together.
Bavasi was just on on KJR & said, when asked about Clement, started to say something that sounded like ‘Joh knows Jeff is there’, stopped and then said, (paraphrasing here) ‘this is a contract, not a line-up– it is Joh’s job to keep Jeff back, and Jeff’s job to push Joh aside.’
he also stressed that they like Jeff as a catcher, and only if they had to get his bat in the line-up would they ‘expose’ him to another position; and that he is not going to the outfiled if they do.
At least Kenji had an opposite field base hit in his last AB last night – I don’t think I have seen him go ‘oppo’ since he’s been a Mariner.
The best scenario is that Kenji now breaks out of his slump, and we can trade him, not Clement, for an actual major league corner outfield with legs.
wasn’t his first home run, in his first MLB game to the opposite field?
Good, another reason to keep Kenji then. Most FA pitcher signings are bad ideas. Of course, you;ve got to wonder if the “poor English” argument passes the credibility test. I mean, it would explain why there are no Latin catchers in the league, wouldn’t it.
107 – I remember it being off Lackey to Left Field, but that’s what I remember.
I don’t really have a problem with this. Kenji isn’t a .500 OPS hitter whatever he’s doing right now, and it makes sense at catcher to have a long-term plan for the changing of the guard. You work Clement in, and work Kenji out, over a few years, with plenty of slack on either side. Catcher isn’t like the other positions, where you (ideally) just lock a guy in and stop worrying about it for a while.
This doesn’t change my assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of this team one iota. We still have no DH, no 1B, and only 1.5 outfielders — THAT’S what I’m worried about. Two corner outfielders who can hit and play defense — come ON, that’s the easiest thing in the world to find, isn’t it? Isn’t it?
Nope. A DH who can hit is easier to find…
111- And yet we are still forced to sit through Vidro at-bats…
it’s my dream that Sexson hits well enough on the road (since he has spooked himslef at home) that someone takes a flyer on him at the deadline.
it’s a dream, I know.
I think part of the angst (over and above this being the last straw in a long string of them for some people, and the genuine concern about aging catchers) is that the next new shiny thing is always more alluring. We tend to overrate the kids in the minors, whereas we know what we have on the team that we see every day. So Clement is automatically better than Kenji in every way (just as Morse and Reed and Wlad and even AJ kept getting better in people’s minds the longer they were “held back” in the minors).
As far as mentoring goes, I suspect at this point Clement may learn more sitting beside JJ and Stottlemyer in the dugout during a game than he will from doing drills with Kenji.
114 – Yeah, but you never know what you got till you actually give them a shot to play and with this M’s team they tend to favor sticking through with veterans who obviously aren’t getting better as they age.
115 – True, but I think Kenji’s catching definitely will improve…it is only his 3rd year catching in the States.
Bavasi and McLaren’s philosophy on team makeup is what it is, so this move was indeed to be expected.
Meanwhile, Arizona is winning with a rebuilt, youthful roster, skippered by Bob Melvin. Moreover, the M’s are currently looking up at the youthful, rebuilding A’s, whose starting catcher, Kurt Suzuki, is 24 years old. The Angels’ catchers are 25 and 26.
Rotoworld is saying 3 yrs, 24 million.
Can we just trade Clement for LaPorta now so we can actually have a first baseman if we’re not going to use Clement at catcher?!
3 years, $24 million? For his age 33-35 seasons?
Um, wow. That’s not backup catcher money. Maybe they aren’t planning to keep Clement behind the plate.
Do we know if all 3 years are guaranteed, or if the third is an option?
Is there any team in baseball that spends more unwisely than the M’s? Not even the Yanks make these moves anymore. They are like the Albert Belle era Orioles.
JM Hawkins @111 — we have one, but he’s playing LF.
the other thing Bavasi said on KJR was that it was Alan Nero who approached them before spring about an extension, and they’ve been talking all this time; it was resolved just the other day.
and from Geoff Baker, quoting Bavasi at the presser:
“”I would guess that at some point along the way, because of Jeff’s bat — and assuming Kenji plays the way he can — Jeff’s going to get exposed to another position at some point,” Bavasi said. “But we have not given up on him as a catcher. A lefthanded hitting catcher with power, those are real tough to find. So, this doesn’t change Jeff’s track to the big leagues much at all. Because his track to the big leagues is with his bat more than his glove anyway.”
oh, Nellie.
“I think Kenji is a mediocre catcher and a mediocre hitter … it prob’ly has more to do with the Japanese ownership”
Wow I just heard that interview with Nellie on the radio and was pretty shocked at his comments. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a baseball player through another baseball player under the bus quite like that before. he didn’t just call him mediocre, he went on about it at length, hinted that the pitchers on the team don’t like throwing to him, said he wasn’t accurate with throws, didn’t block the plate, gave examples of bad throws from last night’s game, went on about the depth in the farm system and how other players like Clement would be better offensively, and yes – stated that he thinks the signing might have to do with the Japanese ownership. I mean, wow. I don’t usually listen to these guys on the radio but I always thought they were mostly homers who pulled their punches when it came to criticism of the local team. Is Nellie usually like that or does he really, really have it in for Johjima for some reason??
Nelson shoots his mouth off, he always has and I’m sure he always will.
Classically, when Gas said that he disagreed with him about Joh being a below-average hitter, Nelson did an about-face and said he didn’t mean that Joh was a bad hitter, that in fact he was a pretty good hitter.
ah well. after he was traded to NY the last time, he announced it was because he said what he thought. Then he got to NY and announced that he’d talked to them, and found out that NY had been trying to trade for him for a week or two, and that was why he was traded. I think he is back to saying it now that it was because he speaks his mind.
I’m just saying.
ah, I found the Torre quote I remembered:
“Nellie’s Nellie,” Torre said. “You get the package. You understand that he says things sometimes, and about an hour later sometimes he says, ‘I didn’t mean to say that.'”
Priapus is the nature of this extension.
If Clement was magically going to be an even average MLB catcher, it would have already happened. That it hasn’t already suggests he doesn’t really have big league talent for catching.
A poor catcher hurts the pitching staff which costs runs which cost wins. A good catcher that can’t hit is always better than a poor catcher who can over the course of a season. Clement can hit however, so find somewhere else to fit him in.
Joh is good at both aspects, great at neither. Add those together and there are only a few catchers that rate ahead of him.
On a side note: Joe Mauer is an amazing specimen of a hitter, but only an average at best catcher. Why oh why do the Twins insist on sitting him behind the plate? He’s already had one knee surgery………………
Joser,
It won’t happen with Bavasi at the helm, but I would love to see the following lineup in 2010:
Ichiro (CF), Balentien (RF), Saunders (LF), Betancourt (SS), Triunfel (2B), Tuiasosopo (3B), Lopez (1B), Ibanez (DH), and Clement (C).
yes, because so many catchers are finished products by 23.
Initial reaction aside, there is one positive thing that could come out of this signing. I say could because… well, you know.
Anyway, there is now absolutely no reason for Clement to be in Tacoma. With him hitting the way his, and Vidro being Vidro, he should be up ASAP. Since him becoming our starting catcher is obviously not a priority any more, he should be our starting DH tomorrow in my opinion. There is no reason why he should remain in AAA with this signing. None.
Since him becoming our starting catcher is obviously not a priority any more, he should be our starting DH tomorrow in my opinion. There is no reason why he should remain in AAA with this signing. None.
There’s something wrong with Batista…no way! thanks for that pearl of wisdom, Rizzs.
It’s BAEK TIME!!!
Let’s just take this for what it is.
1) Jeff Nelson is a racist–always has been, always will be; and an equal opportunity racist–anyone different from him will do
2) This is absolutely Bavasi’s last season with the M’s. 50/50 that he will make it through the season
3) The idea of having Joh and Clement share catching in some fashion (hopefully with Clement also at DH on off days) is not the worst of things
4) If you think the Yamauchi connection had any part of this–that doesn’t make you a racist. It could well be true
5) The upside of this early season bullpen collapse against poor opponents is that Balentien and Clement will be up at, or shortly after the All Star break; and the bullpen can’t possibly help but improve
sorry about that, I thought I was on the game post…D’oh!
It’s frustrating to see so many teams getting younger and locking up young players. The Mariners have been going in the opposite direction for years, signing players well past their prime years and trading away young stars. It is really frustrating.
I can’t wait until Bavasi is fired so there can be a post recapping all of his moves.
That’s a sign of incompetent organizational philosophy. You see it time and time again in losing teams, overpaying for veterans and “sure things”.
If anyone is immediately in jeopardy, I actually think it would be Vidro.
Remember when Adam Jones came up to ride the pine? The Mariners went on and on about how much a player can learn from sitting on the bench. Getting the big lieague experience ™.
Now, look at current state of the M’s, Clement, etc. Vidro’s in shambles. Realistically, Raul should move to DH and be replaced in left by a Kenny Lofton or similar player. But MacLaren loves Raul’s defense, so that won’t happen.
Clement’s hitting, but still needs to learn how to catch in the MLB. If the M’s really think players learn best by their non-game work in the bigs, then Clement to DH solves all of their problems. They get his bat. He gets to learn from the big league workouts.
Plus, for a learning catcher, DH is even better than 1B – while the rest of the players are on the field, he can discuss pitch calling real-time with the coaches. Keep Burke as the true “backup”, but you can still slot Jeff in for an occasional taste of the action, resting Kenji at DH.
(And, if they ever do wise up about Raul’s defense, the M’s can still put him at 1B in place of Richie’s carcass.)
My guess is that Raul will strongly resist becoming the DH.
This assertion would only follow if he were in an organization other than Seattle’s. The most depressing thing about the contract extension is not that we’re stuck with Kenji for almost four more seasons, although I admit I’m cringing thinking of all the base-on-balls we won’t be getting from the catcher’s spot over that period of time. No, the most depressing thing for me is the feeling of utter helplessness and hopelessness that the signing left me with.
Maybe they intend to replace Vidro with Johjima at DH! More likely, they saw all the Sizemore/Longoria et al. contracts being handed out and really wanted to get into this whole business of locking up players, except they interpreted it as, “lets show we that we can lock up our veteraness — you know, just in case any more Willie’s or Cairo’s show up on the scene”.
I thought there’d be even more outrage after the dollar amount was disclosed. That’s criminal, man. $8M a year?