Stone on Griffey return
DMZ · May 13, 2008 at 8:27 am · Filed Under Mariners
Larry knocks out a fine piece on Griffey rumors.
A Griffey homecoming could end up an anti-climactic letdown just as easily as it could be a triumphant valediction for a homegrown Hall of Famer.
Mind you, I think it’s going to happen. Griffey to Seattle is starting to have the distinct feel of inevitability, if all the rumblings in the baseball world are true. The fact that the Mariners had one of Bill Bavasi’s top advisers, Duane Shaffer, in New York over the weekend to reportedly watch Griffey at Shea Stadium is just more fuel to a burgeoning fire.
It’s definitely worth a read. And I believe Dave’s got something on this for later today.
Cant we just play “Heyyy Hoooooo Heyyyyy Hooooo” every time WLAD is up. Then I will be happy.
Who is “weâ€. Do you guys have a club or something?
HI, can I interest you in reading about how USSM and others evaluate defense? Or are you just here to troll the “statheads”?
Yeah. It’s the Club of Fans Who Are Paying Attention.
We the people of the United States of Mariner
“It’s not the band I hate, it’s their fans.”
–Sloan, “Coax Me”
The logic of the bloggers on this site never cease to amaze me.
There is fanatical support for signing a 44 year old Bonds to save the team.
On the other hand you cannot fathom bringing in a 38 (one of the most athletic ever 38 year olds) old Griffey.
I get the recent statiscal differences between the two, I really do. But it amazes me that their is a belief that Bonds has a bigger upside than Griffey.
I think it’s more the fact that the M’s would have to sign him to an extension. Griffey, that is.
I get the recent statiscal differences between the two, I really do. But it amazes me that their is a belief that Bonds has a bigger upside than Griffey.
Just because you are completely incapable of logical thought regarding baseball does not mean you should project your disability onto everyone else.
It’s because Bonds was arguably the best hitter in the National League last year and Griffey was not.
Griffey will cost talent to acquire, along with a possible contract extension at a figure not justified by his current talent level.
Bonds would be a free-agent signing, likely at a pretty diminished amount since he can’t find a job right now.
Signing Bonds has its drawbacks too, but it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Bonds can still hit the ball consistently. Or at least he showed that last year.
Ten years of injuries wears down even the greatest athleticism. It gives me no pleasure to note that. Griffey is very far from the player he was, whether you can see it or not.
There is fanatical support for signing a 44 year old Bonds to save the team.
And that’s not entirely fair. I’d say I’m pretty fanatical about it, but neither Dave nor Derek has made an issue of any kind of signing Bonds.
I would bet the Reds would accept a mimimal amount of talent for Griffey. The Reds would try to accomdate Griffey, assuming that he really wants to come back to Seattle (which would surprise me considering how messed up this organization is). I might be wrong but obviously it doesn’t make sense for the Reds to allow him to become a free agent.
[no]
[let’s please not have this discussion]
scraps – Ever watched Griffey run? I have…he is still very fast. No he’s not as fast as he was in 1995 but fast enough for the Mariners outfield. Does he steal bases? No obviously with his injury history it would be stupid for him to steal bases. Especially on a team like the Reds (or Mariners).
Let’s not get into the Bonds/PED discussion in this thread, please.
Oh, and now Griffey’s being held out of the lineup against the Marlins. They claim it’s just a day off facing a left-handed pitcher, but then didn’t we hear similar excuses when Balentien and Clement suddenly weren’t starting in Tacoma?
Hmmm… Cairo is being held out of the Mariners lineup. Connection?
168 169 – i’m sorry but if you guys are right im going to be happy. no matter what you think about bringing junior back. cairo for griffey.
BringBackGriffey: Of course I’ve watched Griffey run. Do you think I just argue about baseball online? I love baseball, and watch it every chance I can get. What does that matter? I can say I don’t think Griffey looks very fast any more, but why should you care how it looks to me? What should matter to you, if you’re interested in looking at the matter objectively, is that there’s very little evidence that Griffey’s still fast. The defensive metrics you dismiss agree about Griffey’s lack of speed as much as they agree on any other player.
Griffey has stolen 9 bases in the last six years. He has 2 triples in the same period. Why is that, if he’s still fast?
Cairo is being “held out” of the Mariners line up? Meaning what, he’s not starting?
I like you, scraps.
[make more sense]
oh… i take that back … i guess he just dropped a fly ball. great … boy I really do not want to believe Griffey is washed up but it certainly is looking that way…
A. There isn’t any fun IN the 2008 Mariners to suck out.
B. Baseball isn’t supposed to be fun. It’s supposed to teach us how to endure suffering.
Cairo for Griffey?
Wouldn’t that mean their GM is stupider…sorry more stupid…than ours?
Maybe throw Turbo in there too and see what happens..after all he is a professional hitter…
Cairo is being held out of the Mariners lineup in the same way that he has been nearly all year, and rightfully so. Now if only he could be held out of the Mariners roster entirely.
“Held out” usually means someone isn’t in their usual spot.
So when Cairo is held out, does that mean he’s actually playing?
It’s all very confusing.
Adult logic does confound pre-schoolers.
May help if you understood why folks around here came to the conclusions they did. You obviously haven’t given it a moment’s effort.
I might be wrong but obviously it doesn’t make sense for the Reds to allow him to become a free agent.
Hi, I’d like to introduce you to “Getting type A free agent draft compensation for your sucktastic veterans”, with your instructor, Billy Beane.
Now, if Cincy wants to dump the remainder of Griffey’s salary, obviously getting him off the team NOW at any price makes sense, but realistically, they could decline the option, offer arbitration and watch some team (coughMarinerscough) sign him and pick up a shiny draft pick.
Hell, they could decline the option and NOT risk Griffey accepting arbitration, and still have millions of dollars to play with on the FA market.
What if we promised to pack Cairo extra carefully, in twice the usual amount of packing peanuts, and waive the shipping cost? Then would they take him?
7.
Wait a minute, what about budget efficiency, “financial flexibility going into the future”, the Mariners not having the luxury of overpaying, etc.?
I.e. if you don’t care how much the M’s pay Griffey, why should we care what they pay Sexson, Washburn, etc.?
It mostly has to do with the way the Mariners do their financials; payroll savings in one year don’t get carried over to the next.
So, unless it blocks them from an acquisition because they don’t have enough funds available to pay the player they’d be getting (not likely), what portion of Griffey’s salary the Ms ended up paying doesn’t really make much difference.
Of course, on a macro scale and for future years, I absolutely do care about them wasting money, and I’d be very much not OK with a Griffey trade that ended up tying up money in future years via an extension or whatever.
Does that make sense?
One other factor in why the M’s should NOT try to acquire Junior: How eager are the Reds and their fans to get rid of him?
I’m one of the few that would love to see Griffey come back, for my own personal, selfish reasons. If I can’t root for a winning ballclub this year, I’d at least like to root for one that’s fun to watch. Seeing Griff in a M’s uniform again would do that for me.
However, it’s delusional to think Griffey is a good defensive outfielder anymore. He’s certainly not fast, as any objective measurement of his speed puts him well below league average. He can still hit (righties) though, and would be one of the best hitters on the M’s pretty easily. He hit about .275/.330/.480 away from the GAB these last two years. In a better offense I guess he’d be pretty vanilla.
Nobody wants to blow this team up and rebuild the right way more than me. Still, we can all indulge the kid in ourselves and admit it would be a blast to see everyone’s favorite former Mariner back in the uniform. What is there to lose, except a little money?
–this is all assuming the M’s wouldn’t be responsible for a $16M option next year. I’ve heard it tossed around, but until I hear from a source I trust that the M’s UNEQUIVOCALLY would be forced to renew/pay the full amount, I’m going to write it off as conjecture.
I don’t know if the option is something the Ms would be required by rule to pick up as part of the trade; I think it might have more to do with Griffey not approving the trade (being a 10-and-5 guy) if the option doesn’t get picked up.
irish, I do understand your feeling.
This, though, is far from true, in my opinion. He’s certainly not my favorite former Mariner; the way he left town guaranteed that, and a lot of his attitude when he was here. I wish he hadn’t left, but that was a long time ago.
I think there are a lot of fans who want him back, but I honestly think you’ll be surprised how less-than-universal the Griffey-love is, and how quickly it will stop being more than a novelty to most fans.
re: believing it won’t cost much to get Griffey…
– The Reds are off the hook for Griffey’s salary after this year.
– The Mariners are desperate to get him and likely were the ones that initiated discussion.
How can anyone believe that the Reds don’t have all the leverage in any deal in this scenario? They can walk away without making a deal if they want. The M’s are going to have to make a significant talent sacrifice to get him this season if they want him, because that’s what it will take for the Reds to make a deal.
So when Cairo is held out, does that mean he’s actually playing?
Turns out he is playing today, so shows what we know.
The 2008 Seattle Mariners: “Ain’t Baseball Painful?!” 😮
And thank you everyone for playing the moderation drinking game where the drinking wouldn’t have been moderate…..
Hah, so I was right! He is being “held out” of his usual spot at the very end of the bench.
Actually, I’ve thought about it, and I was able to think of an acceptable way to trade for Griffey that would leave me ecstatic even if he was old and broken down.
Griffey for Washburn, Vidro, Silva, and Johjima.
Clear out the financial dead wood so that we can go forward next year and actually try to put this team together right.
I know that Johjima still has a lot of skill, but his new contract gives me the willies. Especially if it means we convert Clement away from catching. Washburn’s a waste. Vidro doesn’t need any explanation. Silva’s contract is terrible. Anyway, I know this would never happen, but boy, would it be awesome to see a coup like that where the M’s get some money cleared up for the next few years. We need to reinstall Krivsky as the Red’s GM for day . . .