Baker on the next GM

DMZ · June 18, 2008 at 11:04 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Geoff talks about what he thinks the M’s need to look at in a new GM, plugging Cashman (handling the big budget is important) and Tony LaCava.

Remember his name. If you hear it again later, you can’t pretend to be surprised.

Or you know, earlier and earlier still.

He also discounts the Rays success for a while, saying they had no choice but to go with youth over the last six years, which is a convenient timeframe because it clips the seasons where the Devil Rays spent a lot of money on overpriced free agents before learning a valuable lesson and turning to building internally. In 2000 they were #10 in baseball. It also ignores the complete 180 the Tampa organization did after the firing of Chuck LaMar, and the top to bottom philosophical overhaul that began with the hiring of Andrew Friedman.

Comments

27 Responses to “Baker on the next GM”

  1. Wallingfjord on June 18th, 2008 11:11 am

    Aww, DMZ, that’s slightly petty pointing out you beat him by a day.
    He doesn’t say “you heard it hear first”, after all.

    Yes, I know I will be lambasted here for saying this, but honesty, that was my reaction to your post here…

  2. jro on June 18th, 2008 11:11 am

    From Geoff:

    Contrary to some rumors, the Mariners still do employ the services of sabermetrics analyst Mat Olkin.

    It’s stated here that Olkin now works for the Royals.

    I’m totally confused.

  3. Wallingfjord on June 18th, 2008 11:18 am

    Sorry about the grammer weirdness in post #1. It was my previously mentioned fear of being lambasted manifesting itself in poor spelling and sentence structure.

    Must be the comment thread version of “White Line Fever”.

  4. Mike Snow on June 18th, 2008 11:19 am

    who, despite still being on retainer here, works for the KC Royals now

    What’s the confusion? Dave was pretty precise in his description. Consultants who work independently can have multiple clients. Hence a phrase like “employ the services” rather than something more straightforward.

  5. edgar for mayor on June 18th, 2008 11:19 am

    I dunno man, I read in Stone’s article, Olkin endorsed all of Bavasi’s moves, I don’t know how good you can be at Sabermetrics if you endorse Bavasi’s moves.

  6. DMZ on June 18th, 2008 11:20 am

    Yeah, I just posted about the Olkin thing.

  7. DMZ on June 18th, 2008 11:24 am

    Olkin absolutely does not endorse all of Bavasi’s moves. He says there were moves he favored and moves that he strongly favored, but unless you read that as “those are the only two categories of moves possible”… I guess that’s how you’re reading it, huh.

  8. DMZ on June 18th, 2008 11:27 am

    Hey Wallingfjord, please — Baker tweaks us all the time, we can’t give back? Come on now.

  9. edgar for mayor on June 18th, 2008 11:32 am

    Olkin absolutely does not endorse all of Bavasi’s moves. He says there were moves he favored and moves that he strongly favored, but unless you read that as “those are the only two categories of moves possible”… I guess that’s how you’re reading it, huh.

    I don’t know, I will have to go back and re-read. 😉
    No I don’t view those as the only tow catagories, I have to go back and re-read the article now.

  10. argh on June 18th, 2008 11:43 am

    Remember his name. If you hear it again later, you can’t pretend to be surprised.

    If that’s not one of the delicious flavors of ‘you heard it here first’ my fluency in sports speak is slipping badly.

  11. Wallingfjord on June 18th, 2008 12:00 pm


    > Hey Wallingfjord, please — Baker tweaks us all the time, we can’t give back? Come on now.

    Of course. The thing is, I kind of expect that kind of thing in his writing (it appears with some frequency) but was just surprised to see it here. I appreciate that you don’t go down to that catty level – one of the reasons reading USSM is such a pleasure.

    But I can see how it can be frustrating to yet again not be credited, and certainly he saw your post before writing his… he’s made a point of saying he reads all the blogs daily.

  12. Mike Honcho on June 18th, 2008 12:04 pm

    Credit should go to Churchill, who was the first to mention (and tout) LaCava.

  13. DMZ on June 18th, 2008 12:05 pm

    Did he? I have to admit I didn’t read the PI list before I wrote mine — Dave and I just tossed the list back and forth on email. I’ll update.

  14. jlc on June 18th, 2008 12:32 pm

    I thoroughly approve of the very gentle tweak at Baker. Having said that, for most of his Neandertal readers who would rather die than be infected with possible USSM cooties, it will be the first they’ve heard of it.

  15. Evan on June 18th, 2008 12:54 pm

    I really think we’re going to get LaCava. I don’t know why – I just think we are.

    Baker will love it (he probably knows LaCava already), and he’s far from the worst choice available. I’d be happy with having him in charge (though Toronto’s failure to develop hitters troubles me, I’d be ecstatic to have their success with pitchers).

  16. Wallingfjord on June 18th, 2008 12:55 pm

    >I thoroughly approve of the very gentle tweak at Baker. Having said that, for most of his Neandertal readers who would rather die than be infected with possible USSM cooties, it will be the first they’ve heard of it.

    That’s likely true. Boy, if I had a nickel for everytime I scrolled down the comments thread there and saw “SEXON SUXX!!!”

    Unrelated, but I hope the mods don’t snip it because [unrelated]

  17. Capper on June 18th, 2008 1:37 pm

    I thoroughly approve of the very gentle tweak at Baker. Having said that, for most of his Neandertal readers who would rather die than be infected with possible USSM cooties, it will be the first they’ve heard of it.

    Its “Neanderthal”….and a pretty poor generalization about another site and its posters….which is pretty hypocritical. Granted, there is no moderation, and at times trolls drop in and post really dumb stuff…..but that statement just stinks.

    As I’ve said over there, no one system is perfect, and it takes an open minded person to marry the two different styles together into success.

    Back to the GM issue, there are a couple really intriguing names on the list that should excite Mariner fans, a couple vanilla (safe) names on the list who might make marginal improvements (a chimp could make marginal improvements), and a couple names that should simply terrify M’s fans (and chase off more than a few dedicated fans).

    Given how the M’s have shown such contempt for the way organizations like Cleveland and Oakland are run, do you have any confidence that the M’s brass can/will make the right decision? Especially since the two most outspoken critics of that philosophy are the ones making the final decision? Should the Tampa Bay comment also bring us back to reality as to the mindset of these people, being that they ignore completely the fact that Tampa Bay, wasted million on guys like Greg Vaughn?

  18. DMZ on June 18th, 2008 1:40 pm

    At least they learned from that, and didn’t do it year after year after year, as the M’s have.

    Moreover, from a front office perspective, the Rays are pretty much brand new. Anyway, apportion credit/blame as you wish, they’re a smart crew now.

  19. Capper on June 18th, 2008 1:48 pm

    Derek, do you think they have really learned from it? I know all of us have seen people well set in their ways who cannot under any circumstances admit fault. My fear is that Lincoln and Armstrong are those types…….the M’s can’t help but get better, because EVERYONE can clearly see the problem…..so instead of breaking from the modus operandi, they bring in the same type of guy, or just leave Pelekoudas in place….and claim improvement, regardless of how marginal.
    Do you really think the M’s brass has learned from their mistakes, and sincerely might be more open minded to a different train of thought, or do you think the organization is still too heavy with the traditionalists to really change?

  20. smb on June 18th, 2008 2:16 pm

    Capper,

    You fail as Grammar Nazi. Academic pronunciation is Neandertal.

    SLOL archaeology?

    At this rate, the Rays will win a WS, while in a division with both the Yanks and Sox, before we even smell a pennant. We need the kind of sea change the Rays underwent after jettisoning LaMar. There’s no evidence I’ve seen to suggest we can or should expect HoChuck to bless the same kind of transformation, but we have no legitimate evidence to rule it out, either. I think it’s fair to be pessimistic.

  21. Capper on June 18th, 2008 2:27 pm

    you are correct, either is correct, although I’ve never seen it written as you posted it, my apologies…..but the point remains…..thats exactly the type of attitude that widens the divide between the two groups.

  22. VictorB on June 18th, 2008 2:27 pm

    BP’s take. (Might be subscription only. Sorry.)

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7683

  23. JasonAChurchill on June 18th, 2008 3:05 pm

    And I have heard from someone close to LaCava that he would NOT categorically decline an interview, or the job if offered, even though organizational philosophy and geography strongly suggest he might do so.

    I actually presumed he would remove himself from consideration due to one or both.

  24. JerBear on June 18th, 2008 3:11 pm

    Sooo…would it be a good idea to go to the games with “Antonetti for GM” signs? Might help get the ball rolling…

  25. VictorB on June 18th, 2008 3:39 pm

    And I have heard from someone close to LaCava that he would NOT categorically decline an interview, or the job if offered, even though organizational philosophy and geography strongly suggest he might do so.

    Didn’t Pittsburgh – LaCava’s hometown – pass on him for Huntington?

    Sooo…would it be a good idea to go to the games with “Antonetti for GM” signs? Might help get the ball rolling…

    The BP article above makes it sound like Atonelli is locked into Cleveland.

    I like the Kim Ng idea. Total break with the past.

  26. jlc on June 18th, 2008 6:07 pm

    Capper-17

    Academic spelling is also Neandertal.

    I didn’t say all of his readers are like that. I post there often myself. I said that those of his readers who feel that way would not read USSM. Probably not Churchill either.

  27. tomas on June 19th, 2008 9:42 am

    Victor B:

    Kim Ng is growing on me too. The more I find out about her, the more I like. The question there, provided Howie and Chuckie truly want a new direction, might be Mr.Y.

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