Wednesday morning
DMZ · June 25, 2008 at 8:28 am · Filed Under Mariners
Soooooooooooo not a lot going on until these two teams face off again tonight, huh? Really, a prank call to JP Ricciardi is an ESPN top story on the baseball page. That’s a slow news day.
On an unrelated note: if you were trying to reset your password lately and it hasn’t worked, drop us a line — I’d hoped it was an issue caused by all the load, but that hasn’t fixed everyone’s issues. We’ll reset them manually at some point, tonight hopefully.
Ichiro is not a typical 34 year old player (he doesn’t have “old player skills” which typically are taking walks and hitting for power). There’s plenty of reason to believe he’ll still be an awesome player into his late 30s-early 40s, especially with how fanatical he is about conditioning.
Three things get in the way of any possible trade involving Ichiro:
1) The rest of the league just doesn’t value him the way that we do. With the Pacific Rim connection and Japanese ownership, he is an asset to the Mariners in a way that is probably unique in all of baseball.
2) This might really be a 1a sort of point, but Ichiro’s skillset is undervalued in the major leagues in general. We hear all the time that he doesn’t hit for power enough, doesn’t take enough walks, etc etc etc. So your average GM isn’t going to give you as much for Ichiro as would be merited, since it takes a lot of study to really see his value.
3) I’d be at the Mariners offices the next day with torch and pitchfork.
Let’s not forget that Heyman is the guy last year who — on the basis of viewing a single game — decided Yuniesky Betancourt would take over Jeter’s automatic Gold Glove at shortstop. (No Jeter hasn’t deserved it either but that’s a separate issue).
Stupid teams blame their best players for their failures. The extension is that stupid fans blame their best players.
The alternative explanation is not something I want to think about…
not to mention “stylin'”
#28
Yes, I’m quite serious. I find Sims to be far more entertaining and genuine than Rizzs. He’s the anti-Joe Morgan; occasionally has something smart to bring up and is always entertaining. In addition, Blowers may be somewhat dry, but he occasionally has something intelligent to say. At the very least, they haven’t made an “Oh Boy, Obertie” comment yet.
Looking at you, Hendu.
Concerning the Heyman article… I can’t remember the last time I read an piece that was so awful. Does he really think Ichiro is going to be shopped around the league? Really? Does he really believe there’s even a slight chance Felix will be on the table? Does this fellow have any idea how to place a value on players?
Clearly though, Ichiro’s selfish prima donna stretching routine is the sole reason this team is one of the worst teams in baseball.
I think Washburn was one of Heyman’s sources. And he thought he could get away with it because he left Kenji out.
On Ichiro:
> I shake my head when I see sports writers talk about his AVG, or his contract….or that he’s dragging the team down…..I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.
One factor might be that he just doesn’t look like he’s working as hard as a lot of other players out in the field. He’s so naturally graceful, and doesn’t zigzag frantically to the ball. And that gets construed as a ho-hum attitude by the casual obsever. But shouldn’t sportswriters know these things?
I also sense from some fans that they don’t relate to his somewhat feminine manner. It really makes them uncomfortable. That could be an issue as well. Bedard isn’t scrappy and dirty, but at least he oozes brown chaw down his chin between pitches.
Hey Heyman, do you even know where Seattle is?…..idiot. You’d think SI would hold it’s journalists to a higher standard…..
“I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.†– Especially with a fan base that values Willie for that exact reason.
Willie’s caucasian. I hate to say it, but in some cases that’s at the root of it. (In a lot of other cases, it’s just that Ichiro is such a unique talent that it’s hard for some people to appreciate him for what he is; they can only see value in terms of things they already understand “like X, only faster” or “hits like Y, but with more home runs.” That, and casual fans always underestimate defense.)
its going to take 3-4 years to put the pieces together
No, it’s not. This isn’t the Indians, who blew up the team and have been working with a below-AL-average payroll ever since; the M’s have the budget (and the money coming off the books) to turn things around rapidly, if spent wisely. And spending wisely comes back to that philosophy question, of course. Even the Tigers only took three years to bounce back from a 119 loss season to the World Series, and that was with a payroll less than the AL average in two of those three years (and just $5M over the AL average in their WS year).
I wouldn’t be against trading Ichiro under any circumstances, but it would have to be a tremendous offer; and since no other team would benefit as much from his presence on the roster (because of the added value he brings to the M’s with its Japanese fan base and ownership) you’re unlikely to get that offer.
Even those writing about the M’s are underachieving……..No No, his letters are perfectly good letters, look at their track record of producing words in past articles, they’re just pressing right now…… you’ll see………….. (Insert sound of rolling heads)
Guys, we’re obviously playing this comment thread fairly loose, but can we refrain from calling people names, even if they might deserve it?
Thanks!
The thing that strikes me as the stupidest part of the article is that Heyman actually mentions trading Felix as a possibility. Felix is probably one of the Top 10 pitchers in the AL right now and he is still a few years away from his prime. Trading him would be utterly retarded. Felix is a once or twice in a generation player.
Exactly. And to me, this is simultaneously the most encouraging and depressing thing about the team right now. It’s encouraging because turn-around could be fairly simple and quick. It’s extra depressing if it doesn’t happen though, because, well, turn-around could be fairly simple and quick.
Don’t forget we really have no good reason to expect a philosophical revolution in the M’s FO. I’m hopeful now that BB and McLaren are out, but it’s probably a fool’s hope.
Speaking of blowing things up, did anybody notice the fangraphs blog post that noted that over the last 3 years, two of the five worst players in terms of (negative) WPA are the M’s middle infield? (Though so far at least it looks like Lopez is turning things around). Oh, and because that wasn’t enough the M’s went out this offseason and signed one of the 5 worst starters (again by WPA over the last 3 years) to a huge contract as well.
I’m not saying I WANT to trade Ichiro…..but I’m saying if the right package comes along (For instance the Dodgers offer up Kemp, Loney, and Billingsley), then I would be for it.
As to trading Felix, thats just nonsense….he’s exactly who we need to be building around…. I might understand entertaining offers if he’s in his last year of club control and we’d lose him to FA….but thats it…..the kid has shown more heart in the last week than the entire Bedard family probably has combined.
Speaking of Bedard, and how it ties in with Ichiro…..I’m not a Bedard fan, I think he’s the stereotypical LHP, a little goofy….but I see how the media gets all over him for being “unavailable”……and see the same with Ichiro, simply because he doesn’t chat a lot, or give them good quote, he has to be everything thats wrong with the M’s….Sexson, Vidro, and Washburn be damned.
Trading away a 22 year old ace so you can start rebuilding from scratch is lunacy. Ichiro, however shouldn’t be out of the question, but we’d need to get more than just getting Adam Jones back.
There is one overwhelming reason we can’t trade Ichiro… he brings in WAY too much money for us. We trade him and we lose our Japanese market, which pours a TON of money into the club. There is a reason we have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, and Ichiro is a big part of that. Not only would it not make sense to trade him from a baseball standpoint, but it really makes no sense financially.
True, which is why it warrants no further discussion. The mere thought of Ichiro being traded pisses Derek off, so we should probably just drop it.
Especially if you’re discussing trading him for a delicious can of Sprite.
But Ichiro gives great quote!
Before I turned down any offers for Ichiro or Felix, I’d like to see what they’d offer me.
What does talking to the press have to do with pitching? Bedard could be the next Steve Carlton if he’d stop talking with them completly.