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No, Really, Defense Matters
Dave · June 5, 2009 at 10:27 pm · Filed Under Mariners
That’s why Franklin Gutierrez is a good player and Wladimir Balentien sucks.
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43 Responses to “No, Really, Defense Matters”
TomTuttle on
June 5th, 2009 10:34 pm
Time to put Balentien on the bus to Tacoma or put him on the waiver wire.
He’s made that same mistake on flyballs about a handful of times this year where he takes a step or two in towards the infield and then realizes he has to go back.
And then when he goes back, he doesn’t run at full speed.
Well, good luck to him when and where he next plays.
ajdaddy on
June 5th, 2009 10:36 pm
For god’s sake. Let’s give the Twins 5 outs and see what happens. Is Chavez hurt? If Balentien can’t field his position, move on!
TomTuttle on
June 5th, 2009 10:37 pm
Of course, I’m talking about that fly ball in the 10th.
That one he misplayed in the 9th where he didn’t know where in the world the outfield wall was wasn’t pretty either.
Bugeater on
June 5th, 2009 10:45 pm
OK…I’m ready to deal. I’m tired of losing 2-1 and 1-0. I’d say the Balntien experiment is a failure at this point he can’t hit or field his position. If we don’t have anybody who can hit on the bench or the farm its time to trade any and all of the following: Bedard, Beltre, Washburn, Batista (if anybody will have him), and (gulp!) Branyan and maybe even Chavez. We need hitters for now, or hitters for the future.
Simp on
June 5th, 2009 10:49 pm
If Lowe could have found the strike zone …
TomTuttle on
June 5th, 2009 10:50 pm
If Lowe could have found the strike zone …
You are picking the wrong person to b***h about tonight.
If you want to complain, complain about Balentien and the hitting with men on base. Those were the two main culprits for this loss.
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:01 pm
As the field manager put it, the game shouldn’t have even gotten to that point
DAMellen on
June 5th, 2009 11:07 pm
On a more positive note, holy shit, Franklin. Seriously, holy shit. Do you have it?
GUTZ!
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:07 pm
So we know know why Wlad was still out there (‘have to see how he’ll do’) but no word yet on why there was no pinch-hitting
justcruisn on
June 5th, 2009 11:12 pm
Ok, somebody explain to me why Balentien gets the nod over Endy Chavez as the starting LF so often. How many games have we won with Endy in there vs. the number we’ve won with Balentien? I think Endy is the spark plug type of player we’ve been missing since Willie B. left for greener pastures. We need him in there. If Branyan gets to play against lefty pitchers, I see no reason that Endy couldn’t as well.
TomTuttle on
June 5th, 2009 11:22 pm
Ok, somebody explain to me why Balentien gets the nod over Endy Chavez as the starting LF so often. How many games have we won with Endy in there vs. the number we’ve won with Balentien? I think Endy is the spark plug type of player we’ve been missing since Willie B. left for greener pastures. We need him in there. If Branyan gets to play against lefty pitchers, I see no reason that Endy couldn’t as well.
Balentien hit the ball well to all fields for a brief time during the first part of May and has pop in his bat while Chavez is nothing more than a scrappy contact hitter (though he does get on base).
This put Balentien under the category of “intriguing”.
Now it’s time to pull the plug on that experiment and cut your losses and go back to Endy every day until Saunders is ready to be called up from Tacoma. . .
That’s all.
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:23 pm
Wakamatsu two weeks ago in the PI:
““This is a guy we’re going to have to put out there and see what he can do,†Wakamatsu said. “In spring training he was out of options, and we didn’t know if he would make it.â€
“This is a big year for him; he’s a guy we have to see play,†Wakamatsu said. “And to do that, it’s probably going to cost Endy some starts and some at-bats. We really like what Endy can do for us. At the same time, we have to figure out if Wlad is part of our future. And to do that, we have to play him.†“
nickwest1976 on
June 5th, 2009 11:24 pm
The huge frustration I have is Balentien isn’t hitting worth a crap and his defense sucks. I mean can’t the team find a better bat than Balentien?
So sick of this offense, it’s getting really, really frustrating to watch and then when a guy who can’t hit makes a game changing mistake, it makes it all the more frustrating.
TomTuttle on
June 5th, 2009 11:25 pm
“This is a big year for him; he’s a guy we have to see play,†Wakamatsu said. “And to do that, it’s probably going to cost Endy some starts and some at-bats. We really like what Endy can do for us. At the same time, we have to figure out if Wlad is part of our future. And to do that, we have to play him.†“
Exactly.
And with that, the Wladimir Balentien experiment ends.
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:26 pm
sorry, Post Globe, not PI.
wabbles on
June 5th, 2009 11:30 pm
I’m not ready to string up Wlad or anything like that. But $#%@$#% one of the things I like about our new manager is he’ll pinch hit and lose the DH because he know that if we don’t score we don’t need a DH because the game’s over. OK, so why the #$%$#%$ didn’t he do a late game defensive replacement. I wouldn’t expect that from Hargrove or McLaren but I expect late game defensive replacements from Wakamatsu.
scott19 on
June 5th, 2009 11:33 pm
And to do that, it’s probably going to cost Endy some starts and some at-bats.
Not to mention, cost you some games, Don.
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:34 pm
I’ll be interested to see if they decide they have seen enough from Wlad, if he has the short leash going forward. Wonder what the cut-off point it– the trade deadline?
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:35 pm
Not to mention, cost you some games, Don.
I guess they’ve decided they can live with that at this point.
It’s no secret that I’ve been trying to counter-act this hatefest for Wlad’s defense, but tonight he proved ME wrong.
Mike Saunders should be ready very, very soon.
I’d still like to know why Wak didn’t at least make the defensive substitution, if not pinch hit for Wlad all together. They both let me down tonight…
edgar is go(o)d on
June 5th, 2009 11:39 pm
Hey, tonight was really frustrating to me too, but let’s be smart in our criticism. You don’t put in a defensive replacement when the score is tied, only when you’re ahead. We were tied in the 10th, so no reason to have Chavez in there as a “defensive replacement”
That 10th inning by itself was indeed a terrific illustration of how defense matters.
msb on
June 5th, 2009 11:46 pm
I’d still like to know why Wak didn’t at least make the defensive substitution,
“At some point with a guy like Wlade, you’re trying to find out what you really have,” Wakamatsu said. “A young player like that, and if you start substituting early in his career, we have to see what he can do out there. Those are things that obviously he needs to work on, a play like that in a tight situation. As we go forward, we will make those adjustments.”
Breadbaker on
June 5th, 2009 11:48 pm
We often talk about how a run saved is worth a run created by the offense. What we learned tonight is that a run not saved is worth a run not created by the offense. There was a huge crowd that was quite lively when it was given the chance. They deserved better than what they got. Or we did, I should say.
tmac9311 on
June 6th, 2009 12:11 am
i understand the you don’t make a defensive sub in a tie game, and i didn’t witness the whole inning, just from Tolbert on; but according to comments the goal was just keeping hitting it into left, and with runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 or 0 outs, i think you make the defensive sub.
Not to mention in the bottom of the 10th you pinch hit Guti, instead of Chavez?
RealistOne on
June 6th, 2009 12:19 am
When you lose 2-1 there’s lots of blame. Wlad’s shaky defense, Wak for not pulling him, the crappy batting with RISP, and Lowe just getting hammered all inning.
I’ll keep watching because they are my team, but there are just too many automatic outs to ever put a decent run and challenge to the Rangers.
There will be high turnover of this team again next year with Griff,Sweeney, Wash, Bedard, Beltre, Bautista, and likely Yuni so hopefully Z can fleece other teams like he did the Mets and our #1 pick makes a quick rise to the bigs.
naviomelo on
June 6th, 2009 12:27 am
What’s with all this sentiment against Wakamatsu for not making a LF defensive substitution? This was a tie game in which we had scored one run. Not one of you even suggested in the game thread that you would have substituted Chavez for Balentien in LF. Balentien made critical defensive errors in the 10th that cost us the game. But, he is a lifetime -5 < x < 0 outfielder. That’s far from terrible. Stop placing the blame on Wakamatsu for not forseeing that Wlad’s missteps were going to happen.
I guess I don’t understand why there’s a belief you “can’t” or “don’t” put in defensive replacements except when you’re ahead. There would seem to be many situations where it would make sense to do that.
scott19 on
June 6th, 2009 12:43 am
There’s also the “theory” of not using your closer in a non-save situation…yet Wak had Aardsma in there for the ninth when the score was tied. Go figure.
naviomelo on
June 6th, 2009 12:48 am
Isn’t that the only time when run prevention would be the paramount concern, at the expense of marginal run production? Chavez is the better defensive outfielder, but do you make that defensive replacement as soon as your groundballing starter leaves a tie game? I don’t know. We did need to score another run to win this game, and UZR says that Wlad has not been a defensive disaster in LF. Yeah, he made mistakes that cost us the game today, but I am having trouble laying the blame at the feet of Wakamatsu for not making that replacement.
Breadbaker on
June 6th, 2009 12:55 am
At home, in the top of the ninth, you use your closer because there will never be a save situation.
My read on the pinch hitting for Gutierrez in the tenth was that if Griffey got aboard, you had Endy to pinch run and then play center for the eleventh if it came to that. It’s not an indefensible move.
TomTuttle on
June 6th, 2009 1:18 am
Look at it this way, I for one can live with an exciting loss like this just because I know what it’ll be like around here in the next year or 2.
🙂
TJ Dirk on
June 6th, 2009 3:40 am
While it it is not necessarily a popular theory, your closer should be your best relief pitcher. A manager should use him when the game is on the line. That could be with a lead, it could be a tie game. It could even be when you’re down a run or two and the other team is threatening to blow it open. If you want to see the right way to use a closer your best reliever, look at the situations that Joe Torre has used Broxton. There is a reason he’s 6-0 with 13 saves. Because he’s their best reliever and will pitch in tie games. Putting in Aardsma in the 9th was a good move regardless of home or away. It didn’t pan out because the defense failed in the 10th.
If you want to see the wrong way to use a closer, look at how the Mariners used Putz in the losing streak at the end of 2007. Or more accurately, how they they didn’t. They didn’t use him because it wasn’t a save situation. Well damn, I’d rather my best reliever pitch in close games period not because it’s a “save situation”.
Give me Goose Gossage any day. 13-5 w/ 22 saves in 87 1/3 inn. in 1983 (w/ 0 games started). Why? Because his job was to shut the other team down, or stop the bleeding and keep it close. I’d rather Aardsma pitch in games like tonight, than during any three run lead. If a pitcher is in the majors he should be able to go one inning and give up less than three runs 9 out of 10 times. If not, send him back to the minors or DFA him.
bookbook on
June 6th, 2009 3:56 am
Playing Wlad is one of the things I like about this administration. Seriously, on a team that isn’t gunning for the playoffs, letting some folks establish that they can – or cannot – contribute to the next contender is essential.
My complaint is with the ABs Sweeney (or Johnson?) takes from Clement, not with the deprivation of Endy.
Yeah I’m not so quick to rake Wakamatsu over the coals for this one either. It’s not like Balentien has been stinking up the joint in LF. He’s been fairly adequate out there this year. He just had one inning there that stunk. And yes, that inning cost us the game, though Lowe was getting hammered pretty good and based on that, we probably SHOULD have lost anyways if not for Gutierrez’s catch and Wak calling for a pitch out at exactly the right time.
I do question why though, when the DH and LF positions are platoons, and the right-handed relievers start coming in, why Griffey and Chavez aren’t used at that point. Its pretty obvious Wlad and Sweeney are fairly useless against RHP (ok, every RHB on the team is, but we can’t pinch hit for them all). And then to pinch hit Gutierrez for Griffey, the one RHB who might actually draw a walk.. that was more of an error than leaving in Wlad in my opinion.
JoeGeema on
June 6th, 2009 6:28 am
The argument for leaving Wlad in the game for his offensive prowess vs replacing him with Chavez would make more sense if Wlad actually had any offensive prowess.
That’s why leaving him in was so dumb – he is NOT better offensively than Chavez.
AuburnM on
June 6th, 2009 8:03 am
Correct me if I’m wrong, Dave, but haven’t you lobbied for Wlad over Chavez in order to get his bat in the lineup? And haven’t you said repeatedly that one run games are a coin flip?
The problem remains this club can’t score runs.
JMHawkins on
June 6th, 2009 8:45 am
Endy Chavez is between 20 and 40 runs better with his glove than Wlad. He’s a lifetime .300 wOBA guy. In order to be a better player, Wlad needs to hit for a wOBA of between .350 and .380 (depending on whether he improves his defense).
If Wlad could keep hitting for a .350 wOBA like he was for a month or so to start the year, he’d be at the low end of matching Chavez.
It’s worth giving him a shot to see if he can cut it, because he’s still relatively young and could turn out to be a better player than Chavez, who is what he is (a slightly above replacement level OF). But, he ain’t doing it yet.
joser on
June 6th, 2009 10:51 am
What’s with all this sentiment against Wakamatsu for not making a LF defensive substitution? This was a tie game in which we had scored one run. Not one of you even suggested in the game thread that you would have substituted Chavez for Balentien in LF.
Well, at the bar I was sitting in at that point in the game (without an internet connection) we had started discussing it once Liriano was out of the game. Balentien and Sweeney are the anti-lefty component of the lineup; the Twins only have a couple of LH RP (Mijares, Henn). So once you’re facing a righty, shouldn’t you take Balentien out?
But here’s the crazy thing: neither Balentien nor Chavez have career platoon splits.
Endy, vs LH/RH: .281/.269 (.680 OPS both ways)
Wlad, vs LH/RH: .218/.214 (.621 / .625 OPS)
In other words, you really should be starting Endy against everybody regardless of handedness (he’s even slightly better against lefties than righties). And that’s even before you consider Chavez’ superior defense. But given that you started Wlad for the (supposed) platoon advantage, and that situation no longer applies, the sensible thing to do is to put in Endy as the “defensive” replacement. Of course we didn’t have those exact numbers at hand, but we certainly thought about putting Endy out there before Wlad’s defensive limitations were painfully exposed.
(You can make the same argument for substituting Griffey in for Sweeney, but it’s not as strong since there’s no defensive component, and you do want to keep one of your better LH in reserve for a key pinch-hitting opportunity. Plus Sweeney probably “earned” a full game with that home run.)
The strongest counter-argument against preemptively substituting Chavez is that with Cedeno already in the field, he’s your only pinch runner.
pumpkin3000 on
June 6th, 2009 2:12 pm
Okay I seriously do not get all the hate for Balentien. He has not been perfect but the reason for that is he is still young and inexperienced and still a prospect. The reason he gets played over Chavez is we know exactly what Endy’s ceiling is, he is at it right now. Wlad on the other hand has the potential to become a 30 hr bat with average defense which holds a lot of value. This is one of the big reasons why this club has not been able to sustain it’s any level of success. We bring up a prospect who struggles, and is shipped off almost immediately. Well guess what most prospects do struggle their first year or two in the big leagues. We look at Felix and Arod and Longoria who dominated the instant they came up and create unreal expectations that prospects will help immediately after being brought up. We go in with these expectations and are then disappointed when the player does not do well, and this was just one game, up to this one game and only two errors Balentien was being praised for how much better his defense was. So instead of giving him away and watching him turn into a great player for some other team like we did with Choo, jones and many many others I say give him all the playing time we can to prove that he can be what his tools and minor league stats suggest he can.
By the same token, I don’t get all the love for Balentien.
If you consider him to be an unknown quantity, you haven’t been paying attention. We know exactly what he is, at this point: a player whose only real tool is power, and who is the type of player least suited for Safeco.
He’s not even in the same realm talent-wise as Adam Jones.
If he’s going to go on to have any kind of successful major league career, it’ll be with another team.
currcoug on
June 7th, 2009 10:09 am
Wlad is not the talent that Jones’ is, but he is not a one tool player. Balentien has slightly better plate discipline and more raw power than Jones. He also has good speed and a strong, if somewhat erratic throwing arm.
It is also worth noting that the Mariners have been tinkering with Wlad’s swing this year, so some patience is warranted. I have long advocated Michael Saunders, but I would rather see him platoon with Balentien the rest of the season (coming off shoulder surgery, and his bat has cooled off). I love Ezequiel Carrera, but he is hurt and his power is a big question mark.
Finally, we tend to forget just how much Adam Jones struggled in his first 616 MLB AB’s.
Time to put Balentien on the bus to Tacoma or put him on the waiver wire.
He’s made that same mistake on flyballs about a handful of times this year where he takes a step or two in towards the infield and then realizes he has to go back.
And then when he goes back, he doesn’t run at full speed.
Well, good luck to him when and where he next plays.
For god’s sake. Let’s give the Twins 5 outs and see what happens. Is Chavez hurt? If Balentien can’t field his position, move on!
Of course, I’m talking about that fly ball in the 10th.
That one he misplayed in the 9th where he didn’t know where in the world the outfield wall was wasn’t pretty either.
OK…I’m ready to deal. I’m tired of losing 2-1 and 1-0. I’d say the Balntien experiment is a failure at this point he can’t hit or field his position. If we don’t have anybody who can hit on the bench or the farm its time to trade any and all of the following: Bedard, Beltre, Washburn, Batista (if anybody will have him), and (gulp!) Branyan and maybe even Chavez. We need hitters for now, or hitters for the future.
If Lowe could have found the strike zone …
You are picking the wrong person to b***h about tonight.
If you want to complain, complain about Balentien and the hitting with men on base. Those were the two main culprits for this loss.
As the field manager put it, the game shouldn’t have even gotten to that point
On a more positive note, holy shit, Franklin. Seriously, holy shit. Do you have it?
GUTZ!
So we know know why Wlad was still out there (‘have to see how he’ll do’) but no word yet on why there was no pinch-hitting
Ok, somebody explain to me why Balentien gets the nod over Endy Chavez as the starting LF so often. How many games have we won with Endy in there vs. the number we’ve won with Balentien? I think Endy is the spark plug type of player we’ve been missing since Willie B. left for greener pastures. We need him in there. If Branyan gets to play against lefty pitchers, I see no reason that Endy couldn’t as well.
Balentien hit the ball well to all fields for a brief time during the first part of May and has pop in his bat while Chavez is nothing more than a scrappy contact hitter (though he does get on base).
This put Balentien under the category of “intriguing”.
Now it’s time to pull the plug on that experiment and cut your losses and go back to Endy every day until Saunders is ready to be called up from Tacoma. . .
That’s all.
Wakamatsu two weeks ago in the PI:
““This is a guy we’re going to have to put out there and see what he can do,†Wakamatsu said. “In spring training he was out of options, and we didn’t know if he would make it.â€
“This is a big year for him; he’s a guy we have to see play,†Wakamatsu said. “And to do that, it’s probably going to cost Endy some starts and some at-bats. We really like what Endy can do for us. At the same time, we have to figure out if Wlad is part of our future. And to do that, we have to play him.†“
The huge frustration I have is Balentien isn’t hitting worth a crap and his defense sucks. I mean can’t the team find a better bat than Balentien?
So sick of this offense, it’s getting really, really frustrating to watch and then when a guy who can’t hit makes a game changing mistake, it makes it all the more frustrating.
Exactly.
And with that, the Wladimir Balentien experiment ends.
sorry, Post Globe, not PI.
I’m not ready to string up Wlad or anything like that. But $#%@$#% one of the things I like about our new manager is he’ll pinch hit and lose the DH because he know that if we don’t score we don’t need a DH because the game’s over. OK, so why the #$%$#%$ didn’t he do a late game defensive replacement. I wouldn’t expect that from Hargrove or McLaren but I expect late game defensive replacements from Wakamatsu.
Not to mention, cost you some games, Don.
I’ll be interested to see if they decide they have seen enough from Wlad, if he has the short leash going forward. Wonder what the cut-off point it– the trade deadline?
I guess they’ve decided they can live with that at this point.
It’s no secret that I’ve been trying to counter-act this hatefest for Wlad’s defense, but tonight he proved ME wrong.
Mike Saunders should be ready very, very soon.
I’d still like to know why Wak didn’t at least make the defensive substitution, if not pinch hit for Wlad all together. They both let me down tonight…
Hey, tonight was really frustrating to me too, but let’s be smart in our criticism. You don’t put in a defensive replacement when the score is tied, only when you’re ahead. We were tied in the 10th, so no reason to have Chavez in there as a “defensive replacement”
That 10th inning by itself was indeed a terrific illustration of how defense matters.
it’s right here:
“At some point with a guy like Wlade, you’re trying to find out what you really have,” Wakamatsu said. “A young player like that, and if you start substituting early in his career, we have to see what he can do out there. Those are things that obviously he needs to work on, a play like that in a tight situation. As we go forward, we will make those adjustments.”
We often talk about how a run saved is worth a run created by the offense. What we learned tonight is that a run not saved is worth a run not created by the offense. There was a huge crowd that was quite lively when it was given the chance. They deserved better than what they got. Or we did, I should say.
i understand the you don’t make a defensive sub in a tie game, and i didn’t witness the whole inning, just from Tolbert on; but according to comments the goal was just keeping hitting it into left, and with runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 or 0 outs, i think you make the defensive sub.
Not to mention in the bottom of the 10th you pinch hit Guti, instead of Chavez?
When you lose 2-1 there’s lots of blame. Wlad’s shaky defense, Wak for not pulling him, the crappy batting with RISP, and Lowe just getting hammered all inning.
I’ll keep watching because they are my team, but there are just too many automatic outs to ever put a decent run and challenge to the Rangers.
There will be high turnover of this team again next year with Griff,Sweeney, Wash, Bedard, Beltre, Bautista, and likely Yuni so hopefully Z can fleece other teams like he did the Mets and our #1 pick makes a quick rise to the bigs.
What’s with all this sentiment against Wakamatsu for not making a LF defensive substitution? This was a tie game in which we had scored one run. Not one of you even suggested in the game thread that you would have substituted Chavez for Balentien in LF. Balentien made critical defensive errors in the 10th that cost us the game. But, he is a lifetime -5 < x < 0 outfielder. That’s far from terrible. Stop placing the blame on Wakamatsu for not forseeing that Wlad’s missteps were going to happen.
I guess I don’t understand why there’s a belief you “can’t” or “don’t” put in defensive replacements except when you’re ahead. There would seem to be many situations where it would make sense to do that.
There’s also the “theory” of not using your closer in a non-save situation…yet Wak had Aardsma in there for the ninth when the score was tied. Go figure.
Isn’t that the only time when run prevention would be the paramount concern, at the expense of marginal run production? Chavez is the better defensive outfielder, but do you make that defensive replacement as soon as your groundballing starter leaves a tie game? I don’t know. We did need to score another run to win this game, and UZR says that Wlad has not been a defensive disaster in LF. Yeah, he made mistakes that cost us the game today, but I am having trouble laying the blame at the feet of Wakamatsu for not making that replacement.
At home, in the top of the ninth, you use your closer because there will never be a save situation.
My read on the pinch hitting for Gutierrez in the tenth was that if Griffey got aboard, you had Endy to pinch run and then play center for the eleventh if it came to that. It’s not an indefensible move.
Look at it this way, I for one can live with an exciting loss like this just because I know what it’ll be like around here in the next year or 2.
🙂
While it it is not necessarily a popular theory, your closer should be your best relief pitcher. A manager should use him when the game is on the line. That could be with a lead, it could be a tie game. It could even be when you’re down a run or two and the other team is threatening to blow it open. If you want to see the right way to use
a closeryour best reliever, look at the situations that Joe Torre has used Broxton. There is a reason he’s 6-0 with 13 saves. Because he’s their best reliever and will pitch in tie games. Putting in Aardsma in the 9th was a good move regardless of home or away. It didn’t pan out because the defense failed in the 10th.If you want to see the wrong way to use a closer, look at how the Mariners used Putz in the losing streak at the end of 2007. Or more accurately, how they they didn’t. They didn’t use him because it wasn’t a save situation. Well damn, I’d rather my best reliever pitch in close games period not because it’s a “save situation”.
Give me Goose Gossage any day. 13-5 w/ 22 saves in 87 1/3 inn. in 1983 (w/ 0 games started). Why? Because his job was to shut the other team down, or stop the bleeding and keep it close. I’d rather Aardsma pitch in games like tonight, than during any three run lead. If a pitcher is in the majors he should be able to go one inning and give up less than three runs 9 out of 10 times. If not, send him back to the minors or DFA him.
Playing Wlad is one of the things I like about this administration. Seriously, on a team that isn’t gunning for the playoffs, letting some folks establish that they can – or cannot – contribute to the next contender is essential.
My complaint is with the ABs Sweeney (or Johnson?) takes from Clement, not with the deprivation of Endy.
Yeah I’m not so quick to rake Wakamatsu over the coals for this one either. It’s not like Balentien has been stinking up the joint in LF. He’s been fairly adequate out there this year. He just had one inning there that stunk. And yes, that inning cost us the game, though Lowe was getting hammered pretty good and based on that, we probably SHOULD have lost anyways if not for Gutierrez’s catch and Wak calling for a pitch out at exactly the right time.
I do question why though, when the DH and LF positions are platoons, and the right-handed relievers start coming in, why Griffey and Chavez aren’t used at that point. Its pretty obvious Wlad and Sweeney are fairly useless against RHP (ok, every RHB on the team is, but we can’t pinch hit for them all). And then to pinch hit Gutierrez for Griffey, the one RHB who might actually draw a walk.. that was more of an error than leaving in Wlad in my opinion.
The argument for leaving Wlad in the game for his offensive prowess vs replacing him with Chavez would make more sense if Wlad actually had any offensive prowess.
That’s why leaving him in was so dumb – he is NOT better offensively than Chavez.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Dave, but haven’t you lobbied for Wlad over Chavez in order to get his bat in the lineup? And haven’t you said repeatedly that one run games are a coin flip?
The problem remains this club can’t score runs.
Endy Chavez is between 20 and 40 runs better with his glove than Wlad. He’s a lifetime .300 wOBA guy. In order to be a better player, Wlad needs to hit for a wOBA of between .350 and .380 (depending on whether he improves his defense).
If Wlad could keep hitting for a .350 wOBA like he was for a month or so to start the year, he’d be at the low end of matching Chavez.
It’s worth giving him a shot to see if he can cut it, because he’s still relatively young and could turn out to be a better player than Chavez, who is what he is (a slightly above replacement level OF). But, he ain’t doing it yet.
Well, at the bar I was sitting in at that point in the game (without an internet connection) we had started discussing it once Liriano was out of the game. Balentien and Sweeney are the anti-lefty component of the lineup; the Twins only have a couple of LH RP (Mijares, Henn). So once you’re facing a righty, shouldn’t you take Balentien out?
But here’s the crazy thing: neither Balentien nor Chavez have career platoon splits.
Endy, vs LH/RH: .281/.269 (.680 OPS both ways)
Wlad, vs LH/RH: .218/.214 (.621 / .625 OPS)
In other words, you really should be starting Endy against everybody regardless of handedness (he’s even slightly better against lefties than righties). And that’s even before you consider Chavez’ superior defense. But given that you started Wlad for the (supposed) platoon advantage, and that situation no longer applies, the sensible thing to do is to put in Endy as the “defensive” replacement. Of course we didn’t have those exact numbers at hand, but we certainly thought about putting Endy out there before Wlad’s defensive limitations were painfully exposed.
(You can make the same argument for substituting Griffey in for Sweeney, but it’s not as strong since there’s no defensive component, and you do want to keep one of your better LH in reserve for a key pinch-hitting opportunity. Plus Sweeney probably “earned” a full game with that home run.)
The strongest counter-argument against preemptively substituting Chavez is that with Cedeno already in the field, he’s your only pinch runner.
Okay I seriously do not get all the hate for Balentien. He has not been perfect but the reason for that is he is still young and inexperienced and still a prospect. The reason he gets played over Chavez is we know exactly what Endy’s ceiling is, he is at it right now. Wlad on the other hand has the potential to become a 30 hr bat with average defense which holds a lot of value. This is one of the big reasons why this club has not been able to sustain it’s any level of success. We bring up a prospect who struggles, and is shipped off almost immediately. Well guess what most prospects do struggle their first year or two in the big leagues. We look at Felix and Arod and Longoria who dominated the instant they came up and create unreal expectations that prospects will help immediately after being brought up. We go in with these expectations and are then disappointed when the player does not do well, and this was just one game, up to this one game and only two errors Balentien was being praised for how much better his defense was. So instead of giving him away and watching him turn into a great player for some other team like we did with Choo, jones and many many others I say give him all the playing time we can to prove that he can be what his tools and minor league stats suggest he can.
Ummm…. Alex Rodriguez wasn’t so great in his debut, if you recall. Among others.
By the same token, I don’t get all the love for Balentien.
If you consider him to be an unknown quantity, you haven’t been paying attention. We know exactly what he is, at this point: a player whose only real tool is power, and who is the type of player least suited for Safeco.
He’s not even in the same realm talent-wise as Adam Jones.
If he’s going to go on to have any kind of successful major league career, it’ll be with another team.
Wlad is not the talent that Jones’ is, but he is not a one tool player. Balentien has slightly better plate discipline and more raw power than Jones. He also has good speed and a strong, if somewhat erratic throwing arm.
It is also worth noting that the Mariners have been tinkering with Wlad’s swing this year, so some patience is warranted. I have long advocated Michael Saunders, but I would rather see him platoon with Balentien the rest of the season (coming off shoulder surgery, and his bat has cooled off). I love Ezequiel Carrera, but he is hurt and his power is a big question mark.
Finally, we tend to forget just how much Adam Jones struggled in his first 616 MLB AB’s.
Balentien is just approaching 350 MLB AB’s.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/adam-jones.shtml
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Wladimir-Balentien.shtml
When you say “plate discipline” you’re talking about walk %, right?