Bavasi firing press conference post
DMZ · June 16, 2008 at 1:45 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Lincoln faces a hopefully skeptical press corps! Live! 2pm our time!
“While we can identify no specific cause for what happened, and we’re all stumped as to why our hiring of Bavasi wasn’t an overwhelming success –”
“What’s that? Something’s going on offstage– OH MY GOD THAT’S YAMAUCHI’S MUSIC!!!“
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That would be awesome, but I don’t expect Sexson to be anywhere near the stage to get a chair to the forehead.
Lincoln: We’re sorry. We suck, yup.
Armstrong: GMs will be hard to come by. Ay-yi-yi. Lee just heard about this this morning, and has no idea what he’s going to do.
It can’t be a coincidence that this happens on the same day that the Sonics trial begins, can it?
…looks like they’ve learned some lessons from CJ Cregg about how to manage the public relations hit.
Hell, with the Sonics trial (not going well for the hometeam, according to a report over on the Slog) and the US Open Sudden Death Playoff, Paul Silvi might end up saying “…and in other news, the Mariners fired GM Bill Bavasi today…” after the montage of “What Else Happened” tonight.
Q: Why now?
L: Our high expectations have fallen by the wayside, we need a new approach. GM select = long time
So, is this the place where we can submit questions that we want to see answered, and you guys just pass them along? ‘Cause I’m kinda not really sure that the local “press corps” will ask the tough hitters that we want to see.
Q: When did you start thinking about this?
L: A while, as should be obvious (What, from his constant statements of support?)
Q:?
L: I’m sure our players and coaches will get going and get this thing turned around. New approach, new thoughts, new direction. But we’re all responsible. Players, coaches, managers, all of us (um, saying “myself” there would be good…)
Q: ?
A: We may trade guys off. We’re looking ahead to the future
(at this point, FSN has a “Mariners w/RISP” table up for no reason at all)
Shannon: ?
A: Lee’s our GM, I’m in charge, I work for Howard, our decision process is streamlined.
L: We’re open to all ideas. Nothing is off the table. We’re prepared to make further changes w/o hesitation.
Q: ? (aren’t you part of the decisions that led to this? unclear)
A: We’ve been improving every year since 2004, seemed to me we were doing great, didn’t want to change horses in midstream. All of us, and all of you, recognized that we made some great moves, thought we’d get even better. But no! Wrong direction!
Q: As you look to the future, are you close to contention, or are you going to rebuild?
L: I’m not going to pull your leg and tell you 2-3 guys will make it. We’ll do whatever. Nothing’s off the table.
Q: ?
L: John’s our manager. I’m not in the mood to sing the praises of anyone right now. I expect John and the players to get going and turn this thing around, and if that doesn’t happen, further changes.
Q: You have a bunch of crappy overpaid players. Aren’t you somewhat responsible?
L: Yes, I bear responsibility. There’s a lot of money sloshing around. All of our decisions are analyzed, argued about… at the end of the day, has not worked.
A: I was in the Navy once blah blah blah not yet begun to fight.
Q: CF or C
L: Nothing is off-limits
Q: You said Bill was awesome
A: Things got worse (he’s mad about this question)
Q: Where are you going to get names?
A: I know a lot of people in baseball, I’ll talk to the commish, come up with a list of names. It’ll be hard to interview people.
Q: Do you have a mental list already?
A: Yes.
Q: Are you satisfied with the job Chuck is doing?
L: Yes. I’m not oblivious to the blogs. I’m not oblivious to the emails we receive. … my entire focus is getting this turned around, don’t take lightly, I believe in it, M’s are part of the community, fans deserve to see it get turned around, they’re as disappointed as I am. I serve at the pleasure of the 7-person board, Nintendo, pleasure of Nintendo as well. I’ve let the ownership group and Nintendo know that I bear ultimate responsibility, they appreciate that.
Lincoln isn’t throwing Mac under the bus…but he’s pointing out where the bus is and suggesting that Mac might very well deserve to be under it.
…and did Armstrong just quote John Paul Jones?
(What does Led Zeppelin have to do…oh, wait… Makes perfect sense.)
Ooooh…and Lincoln isn’t oblivious to the blogs! Hey now!
Oh, that’s pretty cold towards McLaren.
Q: ?
L: I think there are alot of myths out there about us. We’re open to anything, will leave no stone unturned.
Q: Might you be able to talk to someone now?
A: Maybe. Just talked to Lee today. I don’t want to have you guys asking me about it every day. Could be end of October before we can talk to people. Comprehensive search. If it’s Lee, it won’t be because we haven’t turned over every stone
Q: Who’s involved?
A: I’m leading, not going to tell you, I’ll be consulting with Howard
Q: ? blow up roster ?
A: Every candidate we interview, we’ll ask them to research the Mariner organization, good to get outside vision, you can get too myopic, good to get outside opinions. Coordinating, moving foward.
Q: Is it frustrating that Tampa Bay is kicking your ass?
L: If I knew the answer I wouldn’t be here today.
A: Tampa Bay has worked dilligently to build young people by sucking, they’ve been patient, haven’t signed FAs. We’ve had two miracle years, set a major league winners. Momentum is so important in baseball. Success and winning is contagious. Hoping to win, expecting to win, preparign to win. We had a great record in 2001-2003. We can get back there. Commitment to fans. Back to 1995-2003.
Q: ?
A: We’ll see how close we are. Scouting and player development’s been great with Bill. ??? We’ll have a top draft pick. We’ll have a top draft pick each round. Needs. Wholesale changes.
Q: ?
L: I think he’s as disappointed as all our owners. We don’t follow the Steinbrenner models. We won’t trash our players (except that you do as a group). We treat everyone with dignity and respect. Yamauchi is disappointed/upset.
Q: ? playing for jobs?
L: Yes
Q: ?
L: We consult with everyone in the ownership group. We have monthly ownership meetings, all owners are invited. This is my decision.
Q: There’s a sense that there’s no urgency in the org, that you want to make money
L: If this ownership group was focused on the bottom line, we wouldn’t have one of the highest payroll. We’d have reduced payroll. And we’d do other things — for example, we’ve made money. All our profits go back into the franchise. No owner’s received any money from the partnership. All profits go back into the franchise. If we focused on the bottom line, different. We formed this to save baseball in Seattle. And bring playoff baseball to the fans. #1 priority. Harder. Good, bad years. Owners isn’t intersted in profit, or money, and otherwise = nonsense
Q:?
L: Players have disappointed.
Q: on that navy analogy…
L: We’ve got some great fans, I appreciate the emails, I know how frustrating this is, I feel badly for them, we all do, this is what we do, this is our passion, it’s disheartening, we appreciate support, bound and determined turn around.
And it’s over at the ~25m mark. Some of the questions were pretty good.
But really, local press? No one asking how the team that hired Bavasi’s going to make a different choice this time?
Or… well, I have a lot of questions I’d have asked.
Kudos to whoever asked that Tampa question.
If we’re going to stick with Navy analogies, who merits a keelhauling? A Captain’s mast?
That was just bizarre.
The Tampa question sounded like Tony Ventrella
This thread was excellent.
And the press conference ends…and FSN sends us back to yesterdays game…but when they broke from the game, we were still winning by one run, Washburn was dealing and Lowe was warming up…
…and when we come back, we’re down by 4 and the game is over.
Beltre is getting lumped in with the bad players, which is bogus.
Lincoln read the blogs? Well he certainly isn’t learning anything.
He didn’t say which blogs. Could be blogs on home improvements and barbecuing for all we know.
“Just look at his batting average, which is below his career average,” is what Lincoln/Armstrong think.
“…and because we value batting average as a statistic that means something to us, we may never actually improve this team” is what we think they’re thinking.
“I’m not oblivious to the blogs”
That’s another milestone.
I love how, when asked what he’s looking for in the next GM, Armstrong jumped right into talking about how he knows everybody from his 23 years in baseball. So we’re looking for an experienced baseball guy. Good way to make sure we hire somebody with exactly the same perspective as the guy we fired.
And the constant emphasis on how everybody in the clubhouse has to “get going”? What is that even supposed to mean?
This is what I heard:
“Sorry, but you need to continue to root for your team to fail, or the same guys who brought you this mess will continue to make bad decisions, starting with giving Lee credit for random results.
Now, more then ever, root for the team to fail. It is your duty, John in L.A., it is your duty.”
This is going to be a nervous time. A bad decision will set this team back for years. If they make a foolish hire, he will be given years to remake the team. That works both ways, of course… but what would make me inclined to believe that Chuck and Howard will make a GOOD decision?
What’s a GM typically earn? A million? Less? Whatever it is, offer double it to Antonetti if he can start tomorrow.
What I took away from that press conference is Howard saying that he and Chuck are safe and that the next GM’s first name is Lee.
I wouldn’t consider that a fait accompli, at all.
I wonder if that’d be considered tampering? I don’t know those rules that well. In any case, you aren’t going to get to talk to any good candidates during the season, just the retreads who don’t currently have a job.
Not if we ask permission and get it.
It enrages me that he keeps saying they saved baseball in Seattle. The Mariners needed saving because ownership threatened to move them. There was never anything wrong with the market. It was a lousy organization. The Mariners needed saving from their ownership, not by them. And they do again.
I thought I heard a question about change in philosophy, and one of them said something like “I don’t think a change in philosophy is right…” and I forget what they said after that as I began to cuss. Or was that question just in my imagination? My imagination reaching out to Mr. Armstrong with an intention of some severe hypnosis. “Cluck like a chicken! And when I snap my fingers, you will be open-minded enough to hire someone you aren’t in lockstep with.”
My first reaction was glee. My second (thanks to Dave) was a nod to what a stand up guy we had in many respects in BB. My third is oh, yeah, it’s still the Mariners. All traces of glee are gone.
I think the breaking point for Lincoln was probably his commencement address at Western this weekend:
Nothing like going out and getting humbled facing the hoi polloi
Btw, much thanks to DMZ for his most excellent transcription skills. Those of us down in SoCal sans FSN definitely appreciate it.
Nice little shout out to Dave in Rob Neyer’s ESPN piece…
and probably my favorite quote from that article:
“Sometimes it’s really as simple as not blowing hundreds of plate appearances and millions of dollars on guys like Jose Vidro”
This wasn’t because of Bavasi’s performance as GM, no problems there, he got the ax because Washburn had to dry off with a tee-shirt.
It was hard to read what they intend to do from how they answered the questions but I’m not wildly optimistic. At one point, either L or A sounded pretty defensive, saying there were ‘myths’ out there about how they evaluate talent relative to other teams like Oakland and Boston. But then they said other things like everything was open, they were going to ask each candidate to come in with their own analysis, good to get a third-party opinion, etc. I don’t know. I still feel like they did this out of sheer embarrassment over the weekend sweep and they still believe they were mostly let down by the players. At one point L or A said that only a couple of the players on the roster had even performed ‘to their historical averages’. Which simply underscores that they don’t understand the performance curves of aging baseball players like for example the ones we feature at 1B, DH and LF.
I don’t care if L or A now start claiming that they’ve been doing Oakland or Boston type analysis for years as long as they see the value now and go forward with someone who is capable of carrying out a solid plan based around good statistical analysis.
If they think its so important to do that going forward that they lie about the past, who cares?
Armstrong and Lincoln have got to realize that THEIR jobs rely on this hire. No way Yamauchi and Co. put up with another stretch like they have just endured. If we are witnessing the same news conference in a few seasons, someone else will be making the changes then. Self-preservation brings about a willingness to change and I am optimistic that the right move will be made this time. Hopefully I am not being overly optimistic.
So would a guy like Beane be interested in the job? I imagine he would build a dynasty of a team with the payroll the size of the M’s.
that’s not considered rosterbating is it?
Beane is a part-owner of the A’s.
This has been the 5,000th time I’ve written that. I win nothing.
You win our undying affection.
For the record,
I do think the ownership group deserves credit for “saving” baseball in Seattle. It wasn’t as if anyone else in town was going to do it (which we should be learning from the Sonics situation).
This type of purchase requires tons of paperwork, filing, etc. It’s a hard job. It’s like buying a house, except dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s while you’re drunk and overseas. Also, these guys may have been able to afford the Mariners just fine and turn a handsome profit (how much? who knows), they could have just as easily invested their money in oil futures or a widget factory or whatever and probably made just as much in nearly guaranteed money.
So they do deserve the credit for putting the deal together and putting their money where their mouth is. It doesn’t mean that excuses whatever they do, but in my book it gives them the leeway to “do things their way”.
Everytime you say it some one else learns it for the first time
Beane’s part owner of the A’s. He’s never going anywhere.
Better be careful, Evan, or you’ll be given the job of answering that question every time going forward!
for my ignorance I will buy you a beer.
As long as I don’t have to do it in a timely fashion.
Armstrong’s answers were remarkably content-free, but did show a strong command of cliches. Heaven help us if it’s his judgement that we’re relying on for the future of this club. Lincoln gave him the same vote of confidence that Armstrong gave Bavasi just weeks ago, so there’s some hope there.
It’s been a week, and unless I missed it, USSM hasn’t remarked on Thiel’s column of June 6.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/thiel/366044_thiel06.html
Does anyone else have insight into Chris Larson as a potential replacement of Howard Lincoln as managing partner?
E4M: That presupposes that some of the people that learn it haven’t forgotten it and re-learn it with the repetition. Even if the half-life for retaining that knowledge is fairly long, there are a lot of people in the world. Derek will be saying it forever.
So, could we get Beane if we just swapped franchises, and sent the whole Mariners organization down to the Gatorade coolers to Oakland, and brought the A’s up here? He’d have to come then.
Chris isn’t Nintendo’s guy, so he’s out.
There are several good potential candidates out there, it’s not Beane or nothing.
I heard a rumor there’s a post coming about that very thing.
You heard it here first – Super Mario for M’s CEO.
This B.S. about “myths” of how they evaluate performance sticks in my craw. We KNOW how they evaluate talent, because we can see what they brought us. We can see Vidro and Cairo and Silva and Sexson, not to mention HoRam and Spiezio and frigging Carl Everett, right there with our own eyes. If he’s suggesting that sabermetric analysis played a part in bringing them here, he’s completely full of crap. Lincoln & Co. trying to build a team with sabermetrics is like a dog trying to make a souffle by looking at Egyptian hieroglyphics.
I’m more frightened by the idea that he was going to talk to Bud Selig for GM suggestions. That just does not sound like a good idea to me.
Thanks DMZ. Well, maybe “everything’s on table” means exactly that, and they’re ready to step outside their box.
My concern is… if this front office is the same at the top and clearly lacks any level of competence in statistical analysis, what happens to guys who have “underperformed” like Beltre.
Aren’t they required to talk to the Commissioner’s office in order to comply with minority hiring programs?
It’s no real secret that the M’s management team is pretty tight with Selig. It usually comes up around draft time in regards to slot payments, but it isn’t limited to that.
But in any case, what’s the harm in them asking Selig for his opinion on who might be good? They aren’t bound by it, and I don’t see them just picking a retread/old-school baseball guy. If that’s what they wanted, they could’ve just stuck with Bavasi.
Any bump they’d get just from a change for change’s sake wouldn’t last long enough to be worth the upheaval.
I think we’ll see someone with a moderately fresh look, if not a pretty big change.
Reading DMZ’s transcription I initially assumed Q: meant “question” and L: meant “lie.” It cracked me up until A: came along and I figured it out.
Ichiro is in RF tonight…was the CF a Bavasi forced subject?
From Baker’s blog:
I’m not sure that’s ironic. I am convinced it wouldn’t have made a substantial difference.
Ichiro is in right tonight??? Who is playing CF?
………..Bloomquist
Oh god.
What the hell. I wonder, would Jeremy Reed have started in CF if a righty was starting? Is this the start of some lopsided platoon?
I’m hoping that the general lack of substantive answers was equivalent to Armstrong and Lincoln saying “Bill was really bad at his job but he’s a nice guy so we’re not going to throw him under the bus right now.” I’m just not very optimistic that’s the case…
Ibanez is expected to play center field in tommorrows game with Ichiro is LF, and Richie Sexson in LF.
Sexson in RF*
Shortbus, I think you still missed it. A stood for ASS!
Heard on the radio that Ichiro would be permanently back in right field, but they didn’t mention who would be the permanent CF.
Is this true? If so, why? I had gotten the impression from reading USSM that Ichiro was though to be an excellent CF.
Has anyone else heard this?
If so, why the move?
The rash of balls hit over his head?
He doesn’t want to do CF any more?
From Baker:
Raul’s not thrilled with Ichiro cutting in front of him to take catches. How would he react to someone less, uh, veterany doing it?
Besides, I thought Jeremy Reed was taking 1B practice. And I was hoping that would lead to a Sexson bon voyage party.
Is this the first sign of the new regime? Ugh.
KJR…just said Lincoln and Armstrong hired a SABR head two years ago…but they basically haven’t used him. So I guess he wasn’t lying when he said it in that letter. They have a SABR head on staff.
If memory serves, Ichiro prefers right so he can focus on hitting more. Since the season’s already tanked, might as well let him be happy.
Does that whole situation remind anyone else of the end of the first Indiana Jones movie?
“We have stat guys. They’re top men.”
“Really? Who are they?”
“Top men.”
w/r/t “sabr head”: if true, that’s one, not two. And it still doesn’t answer any of the questions I had.
No it really doesn’t. But they have one…one and they DON”T use him, and his name isn’t even high profile so…they are hurting themselves. The Mariners need not be ashmed of basing there “change” off of other teams success.
The dude probably just surfs the internet all day waiting to be called on to give a little input… Like Milton from Office Space, I’m sure he’s been safely tucked away in the sprinkler control room at Safeco.
I don’t think we have any more information now than we used to. KJR may well be talking about Olkin, who is long gone.
“Yeah, I also have this cool sports almanac from the future that tells me what will happen. But I don’t use it. I’m a man who prefers to make my own decisions.”
You are likely correct. They didn’t say his name. They just said they don’t use him and he is a low profile name.
Back to the future?
JSA, I don’t think people believe Ichiro is outstanding defensively in center. He’s adequate there, nothing more. He’s outstanding in right (defensively).
But he IS an outstanding center fielder, because he’s so much better a hitter than other center fielders on average. And having him in center allows you to play someone else in right, which is much easier to play, and thus is more likely to be a prime hitter. RF is a big-bopper position on most clubs; if you select for batting without worrying about defense as much, you’ll get better batting.
Basically, Ichiro in CF is a 0 defender but a +++ hitter; in right he’s a + defender but a 0 or + hitter. You gain more by playing him in CF.
That’s assuming your team can take advantage of the opportunity to put a hitter in right. We are not in that category.
Coupla things:
1. I’m confused abour irony. Is it ironic that Bavasi’s suggestion that some personality is what this team is missing is the kind of thought process that led to his firing in the first place? Seriously? What moves do you regret? And he comes out with, “The personality we’re missing is . . . .”? How about, “When I traded a real pitcher in Soriano for a non-pitcher?” Or “When I traded Carlos Guillen for nothing?” Or “When I signed Rich Aurilia?”
2. Why does everybody talk about a next move being to DFA Sexson? Just because he costs a lot of money? Is he blocking somebody really, really good that I don’t know about? I don’t count Clement because Richie could still DH against lefties while Clement plays 1B. Richie is at least a useful bench bat against LHP. Since he’s not really blocking anybody, why release him?
I heard Bavasi discussing Jose Guillen today… In terms of personel decisions, I was wondering if anyone asked him about the motive to sign Joh to an extension? Was that Bill’s idea or was that from someone else in the organization?
Why release him? Catharsis
So I was looking back at the articles from when Bavasi was hired, and we have
And apparently he’s outdoing his model on putting together a team that sucks, too. Though not by much (and if the Giants weren’t at least as dysfunctional as the M’s, Sabean would be long gone too).
Besides, I thought Jeremy Reed was taking 1B practice.
That was last week. This week, it’s Johjima that’s taking 1B practice. (No, I wish I was making that up.)
This team can’t even RECOGNIZE the opportunity.
And the more I hear, the more I think they’re not going to in the near future…
Bavasi comes by the press room after the conference is over to answer questions. That strikes me as pretty incredible. When I’ve been fired, sticking around to answer questions has not been high on my list of things to do, and those didn’t involve situation in which what I said might appear in a newspaper. It also speaks to his relationship with the team and their confidence in him as a person that they would allow him to appear at team facilities in a press briefing after having just been fired. In most situations organizations would be worrying about embarrassing or unpleasant situations that could develop in that scenario.
For whatever his limitations as a GM, he remains a fine person.
That’s pretty amazing that he’d come by answer questions, considering that he was outright fired (instead of the usual “decided to resign for personal reasons.”)
I actually am surprised that they didn’t do the latter; firing is usually made public when you are throwing someone to the wolves.
Personally I think they canned Bavasi because the FO wanted it to look like they were “doing something”, rather than realizing that the club wasn’t moving in the right direction. But that’s just me.
Why release Sexson? So he doesn’t use up any more Mariner resources, like hitting coach time. And doesn’t take up a spot that could go to some untried youngster who could take a half season to show that he can stay here or isn’t ready. Although the Mariners apparently can tell that kind of thing in less than 20 at bats.
But I’d be happy if he just disappears into the dugout. I don’t wish him any more embarrassment. Just want him gone.
Anybody have an idea on the timeline for hiring a new GM? Sometime between now and when all the trade deadline deals start?
Steve T, in #94 you said in part:
My contention is that Ichiro looks a little more mortal because he’s doing just what you (or someone else) said earlier, cutting in front of Ibanez to catch fly balls — trouble is, those fly balls are so far into LF that Ichiro is getting a bit too many miles on those legs, and he’s getting a bit…tired…and it’s only a bit under halfway through the season.
That makes Ichiro a victim of statheads’ evaluations, unfortunately. I felt sorry for the guy. Moving him back to RF is a mercy.
Next up: Between now and the All-Star Break all the casual fans who adore Raul Ibanez will have a chance to see a slightly less accomplished fielder in Jeremy Reed try to cover the same ground Ichiro did, and leave a huge Ibanez-gap in LCF that NO fielder will get to.
Prediction: Under the new GM management (he may not know what he’s doing today, but I’ll bet he works out a plan before the week is out), after the All-Star Break McLaren gets the OK to put Ibanez in at DH and bench Vidro.
I think they’re just going to keep running Sexson out there until he either breaks a leg or the season ends, whichever comes first.
Anybody have an idea on the timeline for hiring a new GM? Sometime between now and when all the trade deadline deals start?
The only GMs you can hire now are retreads who are out of work; think Dan Duquette. If you want to hire a good GM, you have to wait until the end of the season; then you can go after Antonetti.
So – I’d say they hire a GM by the All-Star break.
My understanding is that if you take all the defensive metric into account, Ichiro rates as most likely a good to very good center fielder; not among the very best, but certainly better than average. Now some people are talking as though it’s generally accepted that he’s just average. Where is this coming from? One metric, or has he actually declined in the consensus of metrics?
As bad as I feel for Bavasi, look at this: he didn’t learn anything about his most basic mistakes. All the bad deals he made, and what does he regret? Letting Jose Guillen go. Why? Character/clubhouse issues. He believes that this team really is good, and needs a Guillen type to light a fire. A guy who “wants to win” (and what a nice passing insult to all the other guys).
Seriously, this is sad. He is so wedded to what he “knows” that everything, positive or negative, is explained by that “knowledge”.
Re: Johjima at first
This doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It makes more sense then Reed there. It allows Johjima to play first and have Clement fill out his maximum value at catcher. Then, as needed, the two can flip and / or have Burke give them a day off.
I don’t see an issue there. The Reed idea was retarded on too many levels.